What are factors for what "class" of lathe to buy?

[skcncx]

Ahhh what the heck, I might as well chime in too. I started on a PM 1022 lathe. At first, I thought it was a really nice lathe, and for the most part it was. Blondihacks does some really nice work on one. I built a custom stand for mine out of tubing and had some shelves underneath for storage. Not as elaborate as David Best's, but it got the job done. But, I started to find more limitations with the length of the PM1022. I started looking at used American Iron, specifically the LeBlond line, but really did not find what I was looking for. I also was not real comfortable buying a used lathe because I was unsure as to how to evaluate the wear that it might have. In the end, I bought an Eisen 1440 (same as the PM1440GT). I can do better work on the 1440 than the 1022 because of fit, finish, and weight. I love it. I paid $7600 for it, delivered. Three months later the price is $13,200.
There are a lot of lathes that advertise a heavy cast iron base, but to me, that is somewhat wasted space. Build a heavy stand that has drawers or shelving that can be utilized for tool or stock storage. I personally would not put a lathe on top of a tool chest; It seems that it would not have the integrity to prevent cutting issues.
If I was you, I would either get the 1236GT or keep looking for good used iron.

Thanks... I too see these far more experienced users loving their PM 10x22 and the PM 1228 and getting great results from them... as I have a similar experience with my 100 lb. Atlas 618 so I gotta think going to a 490 lb. PM 1228 is a huge step up in ability.... it's just hard not to look just a little further for something better... the 1236T.... if I out grew that (or even the PM 1228).... then I likely have a business reason and then the decision is so easy.... us hobby guys have the real mental struggle.... it is money spent for satisfaction not ROI. Money spent for fun, satisfaction is harder to quantify... and I've done my fair share of spending that $ on hobby stuff... it's a game of tetris with my tool wants, space and what I want to reserve back for other shop related stuff.

 

[skcncx]

But, I started to find more limitations with the length of the PM1022.

@7milesup What were those "limitations" you found? Anything a deal breaker? I assume the 1228 is a bit more robust than the 1022 but still very similar in many ways.

 

[Ischgl99]

Yeah, there has been a significant price increase of import lathes over the past 4 or so years. A lot of import machines have seen price increases as much as 50% over what they were in 2016-17. The infamous Harbor Freight 7x10" was $499 in 2016, now they are $779 and almost never go on sale, while in 2016 you could use the 25% off coupons. Interestingly the few US makers of hobbyist grade machines (primarily Taig and Sherline) have not seen large price increases.



That is a comment I've seen from many, particularly those who enjoy the smaller class of lathes. There really isn't much in the way of a modern Myford 7 or South Bend 9A available to the small shop hobbyist. Even your 618 is a pretty fancy machine compared to most of the 7" and 8" import lathes. Emco comes the closest but they dropped out of the hobby market in the 80s.

The cost of shipping containers is responsible for some of the cost increase of Asian lathes that the US manufacturers do not have to deal with. In the case of my 1236T, I’m estimating you can fit 15 of them in a 40 ft container. With the cost increasing from about $2,000 two years ago to $20,000+ last year, that adds over $1,000 to the cost just from shipping.

I would have loved to get an Emco lathe, but I don’t want to even imagine what they would cost new today!

 

[skcncx]

It sounds like you already made up your mind on the lathe

That's the problem... I haven't ... other than a 12x lathe is in the future. Selfishly (mainly for my wallet), I was hoping more people would talk me into the PM-1228 as it would be just as good "for me".... but all of this is hard to define with words and "paper shopping".

It all comes down to fit/finish and overall build quality and components.... if the PM-1228 exactly the same (features, weight and all) but of Taiwan quality, 20% more premium than the china PM-1228.... it's a no brainer but that doesn't exist . So I'm right in the middle of spending a lot more or taking a risk (albeit, hopefully a small one) on the PM-1228.

 

[Ischgl99]

It’s easy to over analyze things, especially when you can’t get your hands on them to compare. I’m guilty of that frequently. I think the 1236T is the better lathe and long term better value, but I don’t think I would have bought it at today’s prices. You will probably be happy with either lathe, the 1228, or PM1236 might need some more fine tuning than the Taiwanese 1236T, but as long as you go in knowing some work might be required, you should be happy with it.

Since you are in Ohio, have you checked out HRG? They have a lot of industrial equipment, but they also do have some smaller lathes. You always have the risk of needing to fix things, but you might be able to get something in your size range at significantly less than the PM machines. If you come across an Emco Super 11 for the same price or lower as the 1228 and in good condition, drop what you are doing and buy it! Seriously, they are great machines and what I wanted, but I was never quick enough when one came up for sale near me. I’m happy with my 1236T, but if an Emco came up for sale locally, I would be very tempted to get it.

 

[skcncx]

Since you are in Ohio, have you checked out HRG? They have a lot of industrial equipment, but they also do have some smaller lathes. You always have the risk of needing to fix things, but you might be able to get something in your size range at significantly less than the PM machines. If you come across an Emco Super 11 for the same price or lower as the 1228 and in good condition, drop what you are doing and buy it!

Not sure what HRG is... I'll have to google and find out. I'll check the Emco Super 11... but the first one I found in Kansas on ebay was like $7K and support/parts may be hard to come buy.

 

[7milesup]

@7milesup What were those "limitations" you found? Anything a deal breaker? I assume the 1228 is a bit more robust than the 1022 but still very similar in many ways.

I had a few projects that I just could not get into my lathe due to length, one of them consisting of turning some rollers for a conveyor belt. Those conveyor rollers were pretty much a one-off deal but I did have other projects that didn't fit. Bore size was an issue too since it was just a touch under 1". PM advertises the 1022 and 1030 as a 1" bore, but they are slightly less because it is a metric size. Also, as you well know that once you add in a live center or a drill chuck on the tailstock the useable length quickly diminishes.
I also owned a PM833T at the same time and the difference in fit and finish between the Chinese lathe and the Taiwan Mill was apparent, such as the quality of the handles and fit and finish of the castings, etc.
Considering the prices of imports now, it may be worth looking around for a good used lathe if you have the time to do so. There are still deals out there but the caveat is you have to have the cash in hand and be ready to hop in the truck and travel a bit. I just bought a Sharp mill to replace the 833T and literally bought it over the phone. I sent the guy $500 through PayPal to hold it and then drove a little over two hours each way to get it. It will be the last mill I buy...maybe

 

[skcncx]

Bore size was an issue too since it was just a touch under 1". PM advertises the 1022 and 1030 as a 1" bore, but they are slightly less because it is a metric size. Also, as you well know that once you add in a live center or a drill chuck on the tailstock the useable length quickly diminishes.
I also owned a PM833T at the same time and the difference in fit and finish between the Chinese lathe and the Taiwan Mill was apparent, such as the quality of the handles and fit and finish of the castings, etc.

Thanks for the input....

I'm ok with limitations being those things... and I did talk with PM... they were ensuring me the bore size is 1.5" actual size for the 1228... so 1.5" stock won't fit... but even 1"+ bore would be huge for me... as I have been turning a lot of 1" aluminum bar stock.

I can look past and sacrifice fit and finish on hand wheels for cost savings.... I just don't want to do that much for the things that really matter.

Overall, for the length of things I turn on my Atlas 618 I haven't had an issue after adding drill chucks, etc... Now, granted a 18" to 28" center to center is only 10" longer and I assume anything in the tail stock will stick out farther being it larger, I'll probably only realize about 8" in gain... but I'm pretty confident I'm ok with that.

I'm totally open to used lathe... but those prices are sky high now if it's not a fixer upper, full restoration.

 

[Ischgl99]

Not sure what HRG is... I'll have to google and find out. I'll check the Emco Super 11... but the first one I found in Kansas on ebay was like $7K and support/parts may be hard to come buy.

Sorry, got the letters mixed up, it’s HGR. https://hgrinc.com/

 

[mksj]

Regarding chucks, if you work with any square stock or rectangular you would want a 4J independent and/or you do not have an accurate 3J and need to dial down the TIR. A 8" 4J also works well for larger stock. Any type of small stock can be a challenge to hold in a 3J as it wants to push out between the jaws. Collets do not damage the part, such as holding threads and softer materials. With ER collet you need to hold stock that is at least 3/4 of the way into the collet, with 5C I have held parts with a depth of 0.1". ER collets have higher holding power than a 5C although this has not been an issue in my experience (I have both types of collets). I use a speed handle on my 5C which makes changing collets much quicker and I do not need wrenches/lock the spindle needed for an ER collet systems. I do a lot of small repetitive work where the piece may be in/out of the chuck a dozen times, so having minimal run-out becomes important. I also do a lot of turning close to the chuck, collets are a lot safer then my gnarly 3J.

So it all depends on the type of work you are doing. They all have their place, and often you will have a project that will only work with one style of chuck. You can get cheaper 4J independent chucks, but I had a Chinese made one on my 1340GT and it was so out of balance that I couldn't get it past 400 RPM. It got replaced with the PM/QMT Taiwanese 4J independent direct D1-4 mount and it runs smooth up to the maximum speed ~2000 RPM.