What are factors for what "class" of lathe to buy?

[Christianstark]

This portion of your post gives me a moment of pause in suggesting chasing accuracy with a more precisely built lathe.

“Bench top on a sturdy rolling workbench is absolute requirement.”

For what you described, I would suggest the Chinese lathe. But I may be dead wrong. Scope creep is real, and you may find yourself branching out. I saw you mention the GT1340, which I have. A rolling cart or bench won’t cut it with that.

 

[Aaron_W]

I really wanted a Taig... but I realized it's just too small.... wish they would design a next size up model. I'd be fine in the 10x22 size range... but once you get to the 12" size you start having the QCGB and isolated feed and threading shafts.

I've warmed up to the Taig lathes. I still prefer the Sherline as a more refined tool, but Taig is far more affordable and the design is highly adaptable. Both companies have been very good about continued development to meet their customer needs.
I don't have any time yet on my 6" Craftsman (618) as I've had to strip it down and reassemble due to years of dried up oil, but I can see why they have been popular all these years. They really stand out being larger than the Taig or Sherline, but in my opinion better built than most of the Chinese 7" and 8" lathes.

I contemplated a new lathe years ago when things were cheaper. I was primarily looking at PM with the 1022, 1127 and 1228. I fell into a great deal on a vintage 11x24 which has set me firmly into the vintage machine camp, but I completely understand the new now vs vintage tomorrow, next year, 3 years from now crap shoot. With all you've said and Christian's comment about the effects of putting a 1236T on a rolling stand (eliminating some of the point of spending the extra money), the 1228 sounds like it makes sense for you.

The cost of shipping containers is responsible for some of the cost increase of Asian lathes that the US manufacturers do not have to deal with. In the case of my 1236T, I’m estimating you can fit 15 of them in a 40 ft container. With the cost increasing from about $2,000 two years ago to $20,000+ last year, that adds over $1,000 to the cost just from shipping.

I would have loved to get an Emco lathe, but I don’t want to even imagine what they would cost new today!

Shipping containers explains a lot. I don't follow shipping at all, but a 10x price increase just to get goods to dock is going to take a big bite. A lot of the Chinese machinery also falls under the 25% tariff, and then you add in the current inflation, fuel prices and general market instability.

This portion of your post gives me a moment of pause in suggesting chasing accuracy with a more precisely built lathe.

“Bench top on a sturdy rolling workbench is absolute requirement.”

For what you described, I would suggest the Chinese lathe. But I may be dead wrong. Scope creep is real, and you may find yourself branching out. I saw you mention the GT1340, which I have. A rolling cart or bench won’t cut it with that.

That is a good point, if he is going to jump in the deep end paying for higher precision, it kind of defeats the point if it is not going on a stand that will maximize the lathes capabilities.

 

[Toro5xi]

Timely topic. I just put down a deposit on a 1228. If space were not an issue I would go with the 1236T. I have a habit of second guessing myself down the road and have cost myself by not spending more the first time.
Im going with the 1228 as I need to pull in and out machinery and also have to paint on occasion in my limited work space. Like you quality was a big factor. I also considered the Grizzly South Bend heavy 10 but want to stick with PM and the cost seems pretty high on the Grizzly but sure looks nice. Good luck with your decision.

 

[mikey]

If it was only 20% increase, that's a no brainer. It's more like x + 60%. For my use and setup, that's the hard decision. That extra $3K in the long term isn't that much... but if I don't need to why spend it.

Based prices (no DRO or QCTP and similar included accessories)
PM-1228VF-LB - $4,400
PM-1236T - $7,000

With DROs and QCTP
PM-1228VF-LB $5,200 (AXA QCTP)
PM-1236T - $8,299 (BXA QCTP, could reduce $300 if I remove their DRO install fee)
*DROS are same model

I am re-thinking my stand issue.. no doubt a chest of drawers built in somewhere, but a heavier duty structure (casters only for moving when needed, otherwise firmly planted and leveled as much as possible). That's where I actually prefer the less weight of the 1228... but that might be a silly compromise given all the insight on mass, rigidity has a direct affect... when turning larger stuff. Most of my stuff will be 2" diameter or less in aluminum, 2-6" length..

Maybe take more time on my Atlas 618 and wait and see.... but I do think I've gotten immeasurable knowledge for getting into this craft and knowing what's important to me with just a few months of using it.

Just wanted to add a bit more perspective. Back in the late 1990's, a brand new Emco Super 11 cost $7K bare except for a 3 jaw chuck. Everything else was ala carte. To get it functional, it cost close to 10K and then you had to ship it. For that amount you got a superb little tool room quality lathe.

Today, you can buy a PM1236T for nearly the same price but with more accessories. While it sucks that tariffs/shipping and whatever jacked the price up, this is what it costs. Given the difference in quality, weight, rigidity and I suspect the spindle accuracy over time, the 1236T is going to be a better buy vs the Chinese 1236.

You are going to find that you cannot add in quality after the sale. You also cannot add rigidity or power or precision. About all you can do is fix what the maker didn't get right given the price point. After all these years, I have learned to buy what I need/want the first time instead of settling for less, and this especially applies to expensive machine tools.

If the price of a new lathe sticks in your craw, wait for a used one or a better deal to come along. You're still learning to use your Atlas and there is much it can teach you.

 

[Ischgl99]

Shipping containers explains a lot. I don't follow shipping at all, but a 10x price increase just to get goods to dock is going to take a big bite. A lot of the Chinese machinery also falls under the 25% tariff, and then you add in the current inflation, fuel prices and general market instability.

Yes, it is really shocking how much that has increased. The shipping companies barely scrape by most years, so they are enjoying this windfall, but hopefully it gets back down to reasonable levels soon, we are going to run out of people with enough disposable income to pay these prices. It looks like the current rates are half of what they reached at the peak, time will tell if that translates into lower product prices, or the companies try and keep them at current levels.

 

[skcncx]

Regarding chucks, if you work with any square stock or rectangular you would want a 4J independent and/or you do not have an accurate 3J and need to dial down the TIR. A 8" 4J also works well for larger stock. Any type of small stock can be a challenge to hold in a 3J as it wants to push out between the jaws. Collets do not damage the part, such as holding threads and softer materials. With ER collet you need to hold stock that is at least 3/4 of the way into the collet, with 5C I have held parts with a depth of 0.1". ER collets have higher holding power than a 5C although this has not been an issue in my experience (I have both types of collets). I use a speed handle on my 5C which makes changing collets much quicker and I do not need wrenches/lock the spindle needed for an ER collet systems. I do a lot of small repetitive work where the piece may be in/out of the chuck a dozen times, so having minimal run-out becomes important. I also do a lot of turning close to the chuck, collets are a lot safer then my gnarly 3J.

So it all depends on the type of work you are doing. They all have their place, and often you will have a project that will only work with one style of chuck. You can get cheaper 4J independent chucks, but I had a Chinese made one on my 1340GT and it was so out of balance that I couldn't get it past 400 RPM. It got replaced with the PM/QMT Taiwanese 4J independent direct D1-4 mount and it runs smooth up to the maximum speed ~2000 RPM.

View attachment 412323
View attachment 412324

Nice setup... yes, I think a collet chuck will be in my sights in the future for sure... not sure 5C or ER40... I have heard about those dynamics you mention... ER collets needing more grip on the part where as 5C can grip very little... as well as a bit safer and easier to get close to the chuck.. which I have done with a very conscious effort to keep an eye on my saddle, cutter and fingers.

Hard to tell from the last pic, but that's about as large of a item I would turn. That's also a pretty nice looking collet wrench.

 

[skcncx]

This portion of your post gives me a moment of pause in suggesting chasing accuracy with a more precisely built lathe.

“Bench top on a sturdy rolling workbench is absolute requirement.”

For what you described, I would suggest the Chinese lathe. But I may be dead wrong. Scope creep is real, and you may find yourself branching out. I saw you mention the GT1340, which I have. A rolling cart or bench won’t cut it with that.

Yea, I think my mobility and cart would have to have a serious upgrade if I were to put a 1236T on it... that's 850 lbs of just static weight... not even considering when you start turning things. The 1340 it out by a large margin just based on size. Even with the 1228, I may custom weld a tubular bench frame together and slide in tool chests... the tool chest would not be the main structure.... I guess it was just a lot easier to get away with this setup with the Atlas 618 being so much lighter.

One thing is for certain... my shop layout changes based on projects and addition and removal of tools (like a larger lathe . That can be monthly. so it has to be a relatively quick (15-30) minutes to lower casters and move stuff around. My SawStop table saw has a really nice way it uses a gas cylynder lift raise it up so it can roll on caster then lowered so the feet are on the concreate floor, casters essentially carrying no weight.

Scope creep for sure... I don't want to have to chase the best of the best for every thing I put on the lathe... I see myself looking for deals and find that shars (new to me) has a good array of products, cutters, etc...

 

[skcncx]

That is a good point, if he is going to jump in the deep end paying for higher precision, it kind of defeats the point if it is not going on a stand that will maximize the lathes capabilities.

Yea, right... if I pay the extra the totally mitigate it by not setting it up right... I guess, what has done for me... the 1236T has be rethinking how my base/bench it sits on would work if I go that route.

 

[skcncx]

Timely topic. I just put down a deposit on a 1228. If space were not an issue I would go with the 1236T. I have a habit of second guessing myself down the road and have cost myself by not spending more the first time.
Im going with the 1228 as I need to pull in and out machinery and also have to paint on occasion in my limited work space. Like you quality was a big factor. I also considered the Grizzly South Bend heavy 10 but want to stick with PM and the cost seems pretty high on the Grizzly but sure looks nice. Good luck with your decision.

Nice! Any idea when you'll get it? ... I wish I had the patience to wait and see how you like it... from uncrating to using it.

 

[Toro5xi]

Nice! Any idea when you'll get it? ... I wish I had the patience to wait and see how you like it... from uncrating to using it.

Unfortunately it looks like October. I almost did the 1130 with DRO because looks like July is the time frame for that Lathe but trying to actually follow my own advice and wait for the one I think would fit my needs the best. I got to admit if PM said the 1236T would be available in July I would probably sign up for another credit card. October feels like a long wait.