Expectations of Chinese Lathes 12 x 36 or smaller vs. Taiwan units

[Ischgl99]

1236 has 18 speeds from 65-1800, the 1236T only 12 speeds with a range of 90-1600.
1236 has a 2hp 240v single phase motor, 1236T is only 1.5hp, but has the option of single phase or 3 phase.
1236 weighs 1250lbs, 1236T weighs 850lbs
1236 has a bed width of 7-1/8", 1236T has a bed width of 7-1/2"
1236 has a spindle bore of 1-1/2", 1236T has a spindle bore of 1-9/16"
1236 is 18" wide and 61" long, 1236T is 29" wide and 66" long

The 1236T in 3 phase comes with a 2hp motor, and the max speed is 1,800 rpm, the website is incorrect on that.

The 1236 comes with a base, the 1236T does not, so part of the weight difference is likely the base.

 

[FortyFivePalms]

Precision Matthews sells two 12x36" lathes, the PM1236 made in China and the PM1236T made in Taiwan. The 1236T is $2000 more or about 40% more expensive.

1236 has 18 speeds from 65-1800, the 1236T only 12 speeds with a range of 90-1600.
1236 has a 2hp 240v single phase motor, 1236T is only 1.5hp, but has the option of single phase or 3 phase.
1236 weighs 1250lbs, 1236T weighs 850lbs
1236 has a bed width of 7-1/8", 1236T has a bed width of 7-1/2"
1236 has a spindle bore of 1-1/2", 1236T has a spindle bore of 1-9/16"
1236 is 18" wide and 61" long, 1236T is 29" wide and 66" long


In some areas the 1236 actually appears to be at least a little better (more power, wider speed range), and the 1236T pulls ahead in some areas. Although the 1236T is bigger, the 1236 is 400lbs heavier.
So these two machines are the same size (12x36), but they are clearly not the same machine other than build quality. Digging deeper into the specs there are certainly going to be other places where they differ and help to account for some of that $2000.

Not only is the 1236 cheaper, it comes with more standard stuff adding another wrench to the comparison.

And thus...the quandary.

Either of the PM 1236s are within my budget, but if I had to choose based on the above information I'd be more inclined to purchase the less-expensive PM1236. I'd really rather have a 120v machine, though, so there's that, too.

Lots more research and decisions ahead...

 

[jwmay]

Either of the PM 1236s are within my budget, but if I had to choose based on the above information I'd be more inclined to purchase the less-expensive PM1236. I'd really rather have a 120v machine, though, so there's that, too.

Lots more research and decisions ahead...

Sounds like you’re getting closer though! Good luck!

 

[Larry$]

I've got a PM 1440HD (2016 Chinese, 3300#s) Its been an OK lathe. It came with a couple of manufacturing defects that could have been very expensive, had I not caught them early on. A hardened roll pin used in place of a brass shear pin! And a casting that totally blocked a lube fitting. The DRO came installed but blocked the ability to lock the cross slide. The preinstalled taper attachment design ha quite a lot of slop that I've somewhat corrected. The lube drains could be much better designed, the threading gear box continues to slowly leak in spite of my efforts. Since I bought my lathe they have reduced the amount of included items that you will need. While the chucks and the like were not top quality they were serviceable. The PM installed Easson DRO works well. I bought a used 2004 Jet 949 mill, Taiwan made. Fit and finish are better that the lathe.

If money is totally a non-issue go with Taiwan. Just remember that you are going to be spending a lot more $$ on all the stuff you will want to go with the lathe (& mill?? & bandsaw, press, tool cabinets, compressed air, bench vice, surface plate, rotary table, collet chuck(s), bench grinder, micrometers, caliper, bore measuring, a dozen tool holders...........) You will have the same choices there: China or name brands. The price differences are large and there are many items. Most of my Chinese stuff has been OK for hobby work/pleasure. (I have splurged on Taiwan, Japanese & Polish made items that are very nice but not necessary.)

 

[St. Paul Steam]

I have had my PM-1228 for a few months now, I chose it because of the quick-change gear box, I knew if I had to manually change the gears often... that I would be inclined not to. I was very Fortunate to have had a machinery dealer see my "wanted" add on this very forum & contact me. The machine was 6 yrs old and not heavily used, the original owner went into a retirement home. This lathe had a PM installed DRO & lots of extra tooling. I also have (2) 9" SB lathes, model A & a model C, while being a little intimidated by the PM-1228 initially, it has easily become my "go to lathe" for nearly everything. There are So many modern features that I've really come to appreciate, variable speed, reversing capabilities, large capacity (as compared with the 9" SB's) 1.5" bore. DRO, quick change gearbox, easy to change between hi/low rpm belt (1simple pulley change & tool less) power cross feed (forward & reverse). As far as Chinese vs Taiwanese quality. I would seek out the Taiwanese 1st. I have a Taiwanese made PM-935TS knee mill & it is superior in quality, fit & finish and I would imagine accuracy than the same Chinese made equivalent. Some of the things I've improved on my PM-1228 , I made a single pull quick change reversing control lever, who wants to open the gear cover & loosen a bolt, flip the lever, tighten up the bolt, close the door for Every desired direction change. I also installed a spindle/chuck locking lever, very handy when threading. Made a "chuck sled" for the somewhat heavy 8" 4 jaw scroll chuck. I found several missing bolts, crooked drilled and tapped bolts. And the one thing that shows (proves) to me lack pride in Chinese workmanship...the PM-1228 decal was stuck on at an angle (C'mon...you can't be bothered to get that right) but I do like this lathe, especially since I saved many thousands of $$$$ off a brand new one. The way I look at a slightly used lathe, is that hopefully many of the bugs/issues have been worked out & corrected.
Good luck with your quest.

 

[coolidge]

I made a single pull quick change reversing control lever, who wants to open the gear cover & loosen a bolt,flip the lever, tighten up the bolt, close the door for Every desired direction change.

^^^ Example of the devil is in the details. That's why I download the user manuals and go through them before purchasing. On that topic I have found PM manuals to be good to excellent. Grizzly generally excellent. HOWEVER other brand lathes especially the more expensive Taiwan lathes their user manuals are an absolute JOKE so keep that in mind. I was recently looking at a $12k Taiwan knee mill which looked like a work of art. The manual wow less than pathetic.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

The price difference is not entirely based on the Country of Origin. When manufacturers choose to have a machine made in Taiwan, it is often because they are intending it to be a better machine, as in features selected, not just build quality. When looking to sell a budget lathe, the vender is almost certainly going to be looking at China. However there are some higher end machines that do get made in China, because the vendors can offer a more featured machine for less than a basic Taiwan machine. The real issue is when looking at budget vendors (Bolton) and assuming all Chinese machines are cheap. When a vendor offers both Chinese and Taiwan made machines, the Taiwan made machines will almost certainly be part of their higher end line, but it does not mean China junk, Taiwan golden.

PM sells several machines that are similar except for origin, but in every case they are different machines beyond where they were made and the Taiwan made tend to have significantly better specs, as well as generally better manufacturing quality.

Precision Matthews sells two 12x36" lathes, the PM1236 made in China and the PM1236T made in Taiwan. The 1236T is $2000 more or about 40% more expensive.

1236 has 18 speeds from 65-1800, the 1236T only 12 speeds with a range of 90-1600.
1236 has a 2hp 240v single phase motor, 1236T is only 1.5hp, but has the option of single phase or 3 phase.
1236 weighs 1250lbs, 1236T weighs 850lbs
1236 has a bed width of 7-1/8", 1236T has a bed width of 7-1/2"
1236 has a spindle bore of 1-1/2", 1236T has a spindle bore of 1-9/16"
1236 is 18" wide and 61" long, 1236T is 29" wide and 66" long


In some areas the 1236 actually appears to be at least a little better (more power, wider speed range), and the 1236T pulls ahead in some areas. Although the 1236T is bigger, the 1236 is 400lbs heavier.
So these two machines are the same size (12x36), but they are clearly not the same machine other than build quality. Digging deeper into the specs there are certainly going to be other places where they differ and help to account for some of that $2000.

Not only is the 1236 cheaper, it comes with more standard stuff adding another wrench to the comparison.

The biggest thing that would convince me to spend the additional money is the additional gear box that would eliminate change gears for the imperial threads, take that away and with my knowledge of the PM1236 I would by the same lathe I have.

 

[Aaron_W]

The biggest thing that would convince me to spend the additional money is the additional gear box that would eliminate change gears for the imperial threads, take that away and with my knowledge of the PM1236 I would by the same lathe I have.

This goes along with Coolidge's comment about the manuals. So many small details like that can be hidden in the manual that you would only find by reading the instructions.

In your case the need for change gears to switch between metric and inch threads, but in the case of many smaller lathes like my 9x20 the gear box is really there to control the power feed speeds, and when threading it is still basically a change gear lathe.

 

[markba633csi]

Just got me to thinking: I wonder where the Grizzly G4003 fits compared to the PM 1236 and 1236T?

 

[FortyFivePalms]

Just got me to thinking: I wonder where the Grizzly G4003 fits compared to the PM 1236 and 1236T?

My admittedly shallow research on the G4003 indicates mostly favorable reviews. YMMV.

Never really gave any thought to the whole documentation issue, and now I understand why Grizzly emphasizes, "The XXXXX manual was written by our U.S.-based Documentation Department and is packed with useful information. The complete and easy-to-read manual makes it easier to assemble and maintain your lathe" in all its lathe descriptions. I am a documentation hound, so this could be a big deal to me.

One more thing, can someone help clear up a bit of confusion on my part - change gears and back gears. Change gearing allows for greater variation in threading capabilities, right? So a lathe with a QCGB will not require a separate set of change gears - correct? And back gearing (or changes thereof) allows for variation in spindle speed, but having a variable-speed motor on the lathe would eliminate the need for back gears? Is that about right?

Thanks again.