If things were perfect... I'd get to try both, side by side... the decision would be easy. Too bad they have neither one at their shop... and likely that's not even an option in the future if I wait because they are out the door before they come in.... so I'm trying to decide which "line" I get in for a pre order.
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What are factors for what "class" of lathe to buy?
- Thread starter skcncx
- Start date
I have a 1236T and chose it over the 1228 for several reasons.
#1, not made in China. I have not been happy with most made in China products, and I don’t want my money going to that country if I can avoid it.
#2, I bought a 3 phase motor version (2hp) so I could use a VFD to control the speed, and have the ability to customize it the way I like. I wasn’t sold on using a DC motor that might be hard to find if it needed replacement, and wasn’t sure how customizable it was with the controls.
#3, it’s a heavier lathe indicating it should be more rigid even though the bed widths are the similar.
#4, NSK P5 spindle bearings. That was a big deal for me, the higher class bearings do make a difference.
#5, I believe the 1236T has better threading options, can’t remember on that, but I did not want to change gears frequently. I mostly do metric, so that was an issue for me that might not be relevant for you.
#6, I like the longer bed, I keep the tailstock on and it never gets in the way. I haven’t needed the length for turning yet, but nice to have that extra length if that day comes.
Made in Taiwan was a big selling point over Chinese, but that does not mean perfect. My lathe had some minor issues, but nothing that was a big issue. Overall, I have not had any significant problems with the lathe and am very happy with it. I’m not sure I would have bought it at the current prices since I can usually find something used in my area, but at the price I paid a couple years ago, I am very happy. I have a thread on my experiences getting the lathe into my basement as well as some of the minor issues I had with it. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm-1236t-review.98036/#post-923464
Something to consider, the 3 jaw chuck that comes with the 1236T does not have a country or origin on it like my 4 jaw chuck does, so I assume it is from China. It had 0.007” runout, buying a Taiwanese lathe, I would have expected better.
I put an AXA toolpost on my lathe because I had it already. If I was purchasing new, I would go with a BXA due to the better tooling selections with 5/8” shanks, and you can use bigger parting blades. The larger parting blade is getting close to pushing me to upgrade to a BXA.
#1, not made in China. I have not been happy with most made in China products, and I don’t want my money going to that country if I can avoid it.
#2, I bought a 3 phase motor version (2hp) so I could use a VFD to control the speed, and have the ability to customize it the way I like. I wasn’t sold on using a DC motor that might be hard to find if it needed replacement, and wasn’t sure how customizable it was with the controls.
#3, it’s a heavier lathe indicating it should be more rigid even though the bed widths are the similar.
#4, NSK P5 spindle bearings. That was a big deal for me, the higher class bearings do make a difference.
#5, I believe the 1236T has better threading options, can’t remember on that, but I did not want to change gears frequently. I mostly do metric, so that was an issue for me that might not be relevant for you.
#6, I like the longer bed, I keep the tailstock on and it never gets in the way. I haven’t needed the length for turning yet, but nice to have that extra length if that day comes.
Made in Taiwan was a big selling point over Chinese, but that does not mean perfect. My lathe had some minor issues, but nothing that was a big issue. Overall, I have not had any significant problems with the lathe and am very happy with it. I’m not sure I would have bought it at the current prices since I can usually find something used in my area, but at the price I paid a couple years ago, I am very happy. I have a thread on my experiences getting the lathe into my basement as well as some of the minor issues I had with it. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm-1236t-review.98036/#post-923464
Something to consider, the 3 jaw chuck that comes with the 1236T does not have a country or origin on it like my 4 jaw chuck does, so I assume it is from China. It had 0.007” runout, buying a Taiwanese lathe, I would have expected better.
I put an AXA toolpost on my lathe because I had it already. If I was purchasing new, I would go with a BXA due to the better tooling selections with 5/8” shanks, and you can use bigger parting blades. The larger parting blade is getting close to pushing me to upgrade to a BXA.
I certainly don't have much room to buy "more" for the 1236T and DRO is nearly a must for me, I'm now pushing the $9k mark getting it to my door (tax, cost to pickup etc.)... I have no doubt everything is a level up on it... just can't decide if it's "my money" best spent.
I wish I had all these epiphanies 3 years ago before crazy price inflation on everything. 1236T does have better threading, but the QCGB on the 1228 for all my go to TPI meets all my wants w/out gear changes. The bearings, yes... I'm aware.
Thanks for the insight on the BXA for a larger parting blade... that is the size that is an add on from PM. That is one operation I get the most chatter on my lathe and where I have to learn the most on accurate setup and right procedure for my given lathe in front of me. I stall the most in this operation and don't feel like I'm doing it correctly... other than just advancing and eventually cutting my part of.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
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- 9,422
If I were going to buy a new lathe today, it would be a PM 1236T or a 1340GT. This has more to do with the build quality between Taiwanese and Chinese lathes than anything else. The latter also has hardened and ground spindle and gears, which is well worth the cost to step up to it.
You also need to be very careful when looking at written data sheets and included accessories. A cheap lathe looks as good as a better lathe on paper. More useful is the weight, bed width, spindle bearing accuracy class, whether the spindle/bed/gears are hardened and ground spindle bore size and overall build quality. Taiwanese lathes cost more to produce and the overall result is usually worth paying for.
You need a decent 3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck, a steady rest, and a thread dial indicator at minimum. Everything else is optional; better quality accessories can usually be found from aftermarket suppliers. DRO's are nice if you can afford it.
Do not buy the fluff unless you need it and can clearly articulate the need. This includes follow rests, taper attachments, collet chucks, adjust-tru chucks, 6jaw chucks. Spend your money on a better lathe instead.
Do buy good metrology stuff. Buy the best and buy it once.
While PM is the best source for details, the most useful info will come from actual OWNERS/USERS of the lathe/s you are interested in. Ask the 1236T and 1340GT owners for their impressions; I would listen to them.
You also need to be very careful when looking at written data sheets and included accessories. A cheap lathe looks as good as a better lathe on paper. More useful is the weight, bed width, spindle bearing accuracy class, whether the spindle/bed/gears are hardened and ground spindle bore size and overall build quality. Taiwanese lathes cost more to produce and the overall result is usually worth paying for.
You need a decent 3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck, a steady rest, and a thread dial indicator at minimum. Everything else is optional; better quality accessories can usually be found from aftermarket suppliers. DRO's are nice if you can afford it.
Do not buy the fluff unless you need it and can clearly articulate the need. This includes follow rests, taper attachments, collet chucks, adjust-tru chucks, 6jaw chucks. Spend your money on a better lathe instead.
Do buy good metrology stuff. Buy the best and buy it once.
While PM is the best source for details, the most useful info will come from actual OWNERS/USERS of the lathe/s you are interested in. Ask the 1236T and 1340GT owners for their impressions; I would listen to them.
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- Nov 14, 2016
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Based on this you would probably be quite happy with a 9-11" vintage lathe and save a ton of money.
South Bend 9A came with a QCGB and was available in several lengths from 17-34" between centers, the shorter bed versions are heavier, but not much larger than the 618.
Atlas / Craftsman, Logan, South Bend all sold 10" lathes with a QCGB. Spindle bore is still fairly small with most around 3/4". Bigger than your 618, but quite a bit smaller than a 12" lathe.
South Bend Heavy 10 (actual 10.75") and Logan 11" lathes have a 1-3/8" spindle bore. The Heavy 10 is usually (always?) cabinet mounted, but the Logan 11" was available as a bench top.
All but the SB Hvy 10 can usually be found in good shape in the $1500-2500 range. The SB Hvy 10 tends to be more desirable so runs higher $2500-4000 being typical in my experience. Even at the higher end you are well under the 1228's price tag when you add in shipping and taxes. A good quality DRO can be added for >$1000, cheap ones for a few hundred.
If the major issue is the lack of a QCGB, have you considered adding an electronic lead screw to your 618? You could potentially have the bulk of your complaints solved for less than $1000.
New lathe is always nice, but you sound quite content with your 6" lathe, just looking for a few more features. A new 12" lathe is a lot of money to spend for a bigger spindle bore and QCGB. You have options.
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Thanks... 1340GT is out, not a bench top model.... the 1228 and 1236T are equivalent feature wise to me... QCGB, threading dial, size, power feed in all directions, bench top, good enough power... if I could ensure a high quality 1228 I'd go that way... the 1236T seems like it's much more known entity as to the level of quality I'll get.
Agree on the fluff, I want to start off on the right foundation ... the lathe. The 4-jaw at the moment for me is unnecessary, that has no bearing on my decision if included or not. Collet chuck, considered and realized I do a lot of different sizes from one thing to the next so it's not a benefit to me and easy to add on later.
PM-1228 on the site does say... (maybe not to the level of the 1236T)
- Induction Hardened and Precision Ground Bed Ways to resist wear and give a long service life
- All gears and shafts in headstock hardened and precision ground for long life and quieter running
My fear, rational or not is that the 1228 on paper "says" all the right things... but the detail not easily seen unless you are standing in front of both may tell another story.
Comes down to what build quality of either meets/exceeds what I want... if it's both, I'll save the money. Unfortunately, no words or docs or manuals (as I've read both for these models) will tell me that
. And it doesn't make it easier since I have no doubt the 1236T is a level up in quality overall... better parts and fitment.The vintage route is a good one... but you are at the mercy of "if anything comes available" and within a few hours drive. Could be next week or 3 years from now or never. Buy a good one for $2K, and you are still spending a lot to modify it... it's not that clear cut of a decision.
Rational or not, adding much more to my 618 I feel like I'm making something it's not... as great as is and how much I like it. Stepping up in rigidity, weight and power isn't something I can do either.
The 12" size class is about my max size based on overall dimensions and I know I won't outgrow it.... so I figure, take the big leap now.
There is a MyFord Super 7 about 60 minutes from me for $3,500... but parts and such are likely very hard to come by... that size was nice and I'm still at $5-6K when I need to supply most if not all the tooling etc.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
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- 9,422
Thanks... 1340GT is out, not a bench top model.... the 1228 and 1236T are equivalent feature wise to me... QCGB, threading dial, size, power feed in all directions, bench top, good enough power... if I could ensure a high quality 1228 I'd go that way... the 1236T seems like it's much more known entity as to the level of quality I'll get.
Agree on the fluff, I want to start off on the right foundation ... the lathe. The 4-jaw at the moment for me is unnecessary, that has no bearing on my decision if included or not. Collet chuck, considered and realized I do a lot of different sizes from one thing to the next so it's not a benefit to me and easy to add on later.
PM-1228 on the site does say... (maybe not to the level of the 1236T)
- Induction Hardened and Precision Ground Bed Ways to resist wear and give a long service life
- All gears and shafts in headstock hardened and precision ground for long life and quieter running
My fear, rational or not is that the 1228 on paper "says" all the right things... but the detail not easily seen unless you are standing in front of both may tell another story.
Comes down to what build quality of either meets/exceeds what I want... if it's both, I'll save the money. Unfortunately, no words or docs or manuals (as I've read both for these models) will tell me that
Just keep in mind that paper shopping is not the same as reality. Ask the owners; they know.
Too bad Emco stopped making manual lathes.
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- Jun 12, 2014
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- 5,056
Having owned a 1340GT and working with many other individuals with different lathes, I would recommend the 1236T over the 1228, even though on paper the 1228 appears to offer more. If you look at the numbers and compare machines it really doesn't tell you much about how they work and operate. The 1236T/1340GT are the same basic lathe other than the size there are some small manufacturing difference but will not be noticeable in the hobby environment. I would recommend 3 phase and you can do a VFD basic install which is outlined another thread. You want to go with BXA tooling. Having a decent 3J, 4J and possibly a collet chuck should be on your short list. QMT/PM has very good Taiwanese chucks, I would recommend a set-tru style for the 3J as it is a much higher quality. I find most of the stock chucks if they are offered at this level machines to be quite poor, so consider using it on a rotary table or door stop. Tooling adds up, but you can spread those costs over time.
www.precisionmatthews.com
www.precisionmatthews.com
6″ Adjustable Ultra Precision 3 Jaw Chuck, D1-4 Mount – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.
www.precisionmatthews.com
8″ High Precision 4 Jaw Lathe Chuck, D1-4 Mount – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.
www.precisionmatthews.com
On either of those lathes, you won’t get chatter, you will snap the blade if you do it wrong. I have too much experience with that lol.
As far as bench top, your bench will need to be fairly short unless you are really tall. You could always make a riser to stand on, but I’m 5’-6” and my stand is only 30” tall with the 1236T.