What Did You Buy Today?

[Larry$]

Reversed?

Yes

 

[dkemppai]

Ah but what to stock pile. 4140? 303? 12L14? 1018? 1144? 6061? 7075? Acetal? UHMW? ....

Yes!

 

[projectnut]

Yup! I like to make stuff..... Often just to try out some new to me trick (& justify buying another tool.) It for sure has little or nothing to do with economics. The same applies to fix'n!

About knocking import tools for not matching a premium brand, what's the point! I don't think any of us expect a "3" ton Vevor 99#, $255 delivered price to match a Drake (which it looks like the Vevor is a knock off from) 125# gross frt. wt. $1241 plus frt. Operating areas are very similar. The lever handle length on the Vevor was obviously chosen to fit in the shipping (flimsy) crate. Not to give full force. $1241/255=5± times!

If you've got the $ and/or production justification by all means always buy the premium brands. Either choice can give a sense of pleasure to their owner, for different reasons.

Like rwdenney I didn’t buy my press new. Actually I traded a guy for an old Toro lawnmower. At the time that model mower was worth about $75.00. We were both happy with the trade

 

[woodchucker]

But you are not correct that Dake (at least) derates presses with hand wheels. The hand wheels are for rapid adjust when the ratchet is released only, not for pressing, on Dake models.

you are correct sir.

 

[WobblyHand]

Even on my low end arbor press, the hand wheel is only for rapid adjust when the ratchet is released. (Up or down.) I'm under no illusion that what I have is much in the quality department, but it does work. Is it 3T? On paper, perhaps. I'll bet the mechanical advantage is low enough that I'll never be able to achieve that without a scary long bar that would bend before applying enough force. Nevertheless, I still can do some work with it, so I am grateful to have it.

 

[rwdenney]

Like rwdenney I didn’t buy my press new. Actually I traded a guy for an old Toro lawnmower. At the time that model mower was worth about $75.00. We were both happy with the trade

I bet!

Rick “NEVER see deals like that around here” Denney

 

[projectnut]

I stand corrected on the Dake presses. As mentioned the hand wheel on this brand is only to speed up lowering the ram.

Greenerd on the other hand does offer models that use the hand wheel for applying pressure on the ram. These models have a considerably lower pressure rating than the lever actuated models

 

[rwdenney]

I stand corrected on the Dake presses. As mentioned the hand wheel on this brand is only to speed up lowering the ram.

Greenerd on the other hand does offer models that use the hand wheel for applying pressure on the ram. These models have a considerably lower pressure rating than the lever actuated models

And on more research I gatherDake made ship’s-wheel handles at one time, too.

I’ve been out here measuring stuff as if I didn’t have anything better to do, because I’m trying to figure out the leverage of this import and how Dake reports a higher number.

The effective handle length in this import is a little over 22” from the center of spindle rotation to the tip of the handle. Though there is a lot of arm-waving about Dake, nobody provides dimensions. but from the picture, it appears to be similar.

The pinion teeth in the spindle that drive the ram’s rack have about 1/8” center of engagement. On my import, the spindle diameter for the pinion and the ratchet wheel is larger than the handwheel shaft—2.198” into which the pinion teeth are cut. Half that less the center of engagement is about 0.95”, and with a spec’ed 20:1 leverage would yield an effective handle length of 19”, or about a fist in from the tip. So that all looks conservative but correct.

The Dake appears to use a much smaller pinion shaft, and it is all one diameter from the hand wheel to the ratcheting handle. If the handle is effectively also 22” long, the pinion shaft can’t be any bigger than about 1.17” in diameter, and one post on another forum suggested 1-1/4”.

Here’s a clip from the parts diagram for the Dake 1-1/2:



I do not see anything at all to suggest compound action. The handle rotates on the spindle and the ratchet pawl locks them together.

The spindle is a single diameter from the handwheel end to the handle, and the pinion gears are cut into it. If this is all in scale, that could be a 1-1/8” or 1-1/4”shaft—the square ram is 1-1/4” on a side. It has to be that small or the math doesn’t work.

The handle diameter is apparently 3/4” on the Dake—it’s 0.862” on the import.

I’m thinking the import is beefier, and the high price for the oversized spindle is less leverage. It really does make me think a longer handle would do no harm, to be honest.

I lengthened a dent rod for working on old tubas like this:



It’s a foot long and allowed the other end of the rod (onto which the dent ball screws) to reach all the way down the bell of a German Kaisertuba. I’m thinking that works much better than a cheater pipe, and lets the handle retain its flexibility.

But it’s just a hip-pocket idea in case I run into a situation where I can’t get enough leverage and the part won’t fit in the 20-ton shop press.

Rick “thinking the import shaft is way over designed” Denney

 

[Larry$]

The only "gearing" on this system is the pinion shaft diameter to the ram. The smaller the shaft the greater the mechanical advantage. The # of teeth (size) doesn't matter since they have to be the same on both the shaft and the ram in order to work. The operating lever and the ratchet are locked together so the # of teeth on the ratchet doesn't change the leverage. The sizes of the parts don't affect the mechanical advantage. Could be that larger lever or ratchet are weaker material so need to be larger. Or maybe they are just stronger. Only two things affect how much force the ram can have is the length of the lever arm and the diameter of the pinion. The pinion is a fixed size, so your only option to get more push, on a given arbore press, is increase the lever arm length &/or put more muscle into it.

 

[rwdenney]

The only "gearing" on this system is the pinion shaft diameter to the ram. The smaller the shaft the greater the mechanical advantage. The # of teeth (size) doesn't matter since they have to be the same on both the shaft and the ram in order to work. The operating lever and the ratchet are locked together so the # of teeth on the ratchet doesn't change the leverage. The sizes of the parts don't affect the mechanical advantage. Could be that larger lever or ratchet are weaker material so need to be larger. Or maybe they are just stronger. Only two things affect how much force the ram can have is the length of the lever arm and the diameter of the pinion. The pinion is a fixed size, so your only option to get more push, on a given arbore press, is increase the lever arm length &/or put more muscle into it.

I think that means we agree, right?

Rick "feeling like he's just not communicating today" Denney