What Did You Buy Today?

[WobblyHand]

If I can find material on the cheap, absolutely. Why would I buy it when I can make it for three times the cost. Right?!

Has that stopped any of us before?

Do you have a steel yard where you can buy cut offs? That's how I get bigger pieces. The cut off steel prices are significantly lower than prime stock. They have a surprising amounts of pieces of all sizes and shapes, but you need to go there with a BOM, dimensions and some creativity in hand.

I do understand the cost and time issues. In the past year had to make my own monitor stand because nothing existed that would fit in the space required. I chose to go with a commercial VESA adapter and swivel assembly due to the economics of time, but chose to make my own base and stand. I used steel stock from the cutoff area. Worked out far better than I expected and bought me a lot more desk space.

 

[wachuko]

Has that stopped any of us before?

Do you have a steel yard where you can buy cut offs? That's how I get bigger pieces. The cut off steel prices are significantly lower than prime stock. They have a surprising amounts of pieces of all sizes and shapes, but you need to go there with a BOM, dimensions and some creativity in hand.

I do understand the cost and time issues. In the past year had to make my own monitor stand because nothing existed that would fit in the space required. I chose to go with a commercial VESA adapter and swivel assembly due to the economics of time, but chose to make my own base and stand. I used steel stock from the cutoff area. Worked out far better than I expected and bought me a lot more desk space.

That is the plan. I just need to start looking around here in Ocala… have not had the time to do so.

 

[projectnut]

The press arrived. Typical rough Chinese castings and fit, but it’s got an important extra 1-1/2” of working height compared to the standard Dake No. 1-1/2.

I spent a good couple of hours going over it with a file and taking parts to the belt sander for deburring. That made it a lot easier to handle without blood loss, at least. This picture shows the easing of the corners of the daisy wheel.

The front bearing plate has an inserted piece of sheet steel to act as a wear plate.

To that, I added .020 brass shim stock to provide a smoother wear plate.

I then oiled it and adjusted the gib screws. I left it with just enough tension to remain in place when I raise it using the hand wheel, but can lower it with my finger on top of the ram. That gives it about 1/32” of wiggle at the bottom of the stroke.

Beyond that, it just works. Can I get 3 tons of press force? With 20:1 mechanical advantage, it would take 300 pounds on the end of the handle. I weigh 200, so, no, not without a cheater pipe. But I think it will meet my needs.

Rick “now to find a place to mount it” Denney

I'm not trying to be critical of you, but I find it almost ridiculous that the manufacturer can rate that press as having a 3-ton capacity. Several years ago, I purchased a Greenerd 3B arbor press. It too is rated as having a 3-ton capacity. However, there are major differences between the two.

The Greenerd weighs in at 335 lbs., it has a vertical throat capacity of 12", a horizontal depth of 17", and can exert 3 tons of pressure. The model I have has a lever handle with a 45:1 ratio. In this case it only takes 133 lbs. of pressure on the handle to generate 6,000 lbs. of force at the ram.

I have mine mounted on a homemade angle iron stand. Over the years I've used it to press bearings, broach keyways, and press fit parts. Given its weight and profile I've never had to bolt or otherwise secure it to the floor. In fact, none of the machines in the shop are secured to the floor. Each time a new machine enters the mix things get moved around. Things have been moved so many times the floor would look like Swiss cheese. Later this spring things will move again as the "new to me" Delta radial arm saw will be added to the mix.

 

[woodchucker]

If I can find material on the cheap, absolutely. Why would I buy it when I can make it for three times the cost. Right?!

Right. That's why we have the equipment. So we can spend 3 times as much on the material (since we buy in small qtys) and buy more equip.

Otherwise you are just a tool collector. And the important thing about DOING is you are learning during each project. That's the most important thing. An apprentice does a lot of make work, and small work that the experienced man does not need to do anymore. This is how they get the experience for moving toward becoming a better craftsman. SO get to work.

 

[rwdenney]

@projectnut That is similar to the Dake 1-1/2c, which weighs 425 pounds. With twice the throat depth, the casting has to be about twice as strong and more than twice as heavy. (It costs three times as much, too.)

The Dake 1-1/2 (no C), which is the closest Dake to this one, weighs about 20 pounds more (145 pounds instead of 125 pounds). It has an inch more depth which is about 17% more than the Chinese press, and it weighs 16% more, as expected.

But the main difference with the Dake, is the 48:1 mechanical advantage. The only way to get that without compound gearing is to use a smaller diameter ratchet gear or a longer handle. I don’t see either, so it must have compound gearing. Your Greenerd looks like it does it with a smaller pinion gear.

Rick “deep throat” Denney

 

[WobblyHand]

I'm not trying to be critical of you, but I find it almost ridiculous that the manufacturer can rate that press as having a 3-ton capacity. Several years ago, I purchased a Greenerd 3B arbor press. It too is rated as having a 3-ton capacity. However, there are major differences between the two.

The Greenerd weighs in at 335 lbs., it has a vertical throat capacity of 12", a horizontal depth of 17", and can exert 3 tons of pressure. The model I have has a lever handle with a 45:1 ratio. In this case it only takes 133 lbs. of pressure on the handle to generate 6,000 lbs. of force at the ram.

I have mine mounted on a homemade angle iron stand. Over the years I've used it to press bearings, broach keyways, and press fit parts. Given its weight and profile I've never had to bolt or otherwise secure it to the floor. In fact, none of the machines in the shop are secured to the floor. Each time a new machine enters the mix things get moved around. Things have been moved so many times the floor would look like Swiss cheese. Later this spring things will move again as the "new to me" Delta radial arm saw will be added to the mix.

I agree with you. The sad reality of many lower cost sourced equipment is that is of lesser grade, sometimes in obvious or subtle ways. Weight, stiffness, throat dimensions, mechanical advantage, quality of design and materials, and more.

I'd love to find a Greenerd - heck, it was cast and manufactured in my city, but I have yet to find one that is fits my budget and abilities to bring home. Periodically I do look.

As for tip over, it can happen - maybe it is far less likely with well designed and heavier premium equipment, but the risk is greater with sub-premium stuff. Merely suggesting that people be observant and if there's any indication of an issue, securing the base can help.

 

[rwdenney]

I agree with you. The sad reality of many lower cost sourced equipment is that is of lesser grade, sometimes in obvious or subtle ways. Weight, stiffness, throat dimensions, mechanical advantage, quality of design and materials, and more.

I'd love to find a Greenerd - heck, it was cast and manufactured in my city, but I have yet to find one that is fits my budget and abilities to bring home. Periodically I do look.

As for tip over, it can happen - maybe it is far less likely with well designed and heavier premium equipment, but the risk is greater with sub-premium stuff. Merely suggesting that people be observant and if there's any indication of an issue, securing the base can help.

You guys are comparing apples to oranges. A press with a 17” throat like projectnut’s Greenerd or the even heavier Dake 1-1/2c is a completely different loading scenario than a standard-depth press like a Dake 1-1/2 or this Chinese ripoff of it. With more than twice the depth it will exert more than twice the moment arm on the casting behind the throat and thus will need twice the material to resist that force. All that additional weight at the back counterbalances the force on the handle and it won’t tip easily.

But it’s twice the footprint, more than twice the weight, and three times the cost.

The standard-throat press, no matter who makes it, will tip if it’s not bolted down.

Rick “and a tall press like a Dake 1-1/2b will tip even easier” Denney

 

[pontiac428]

If I can find material on the cheap, absolutely. Why would I buy it when I can make it for three times the cost. Right?!

Every once in a while, I suck it up and make a journey to the metal supplier to plunk down the plastic. I never really have enough of the right stuff, but there is beauty in the "stockpile" when I want to make something. It's a shame that the more I want to spend and the further I'm willing to drive, the better the prices and materials get, but that's our post-industrial reality. Stocking material is almost a hobby of its own. Whether it's in 5-gal buckets, in shelves, or on high racks, a shop's stockpile should be something to behold. It's the difference between making an idea a reality today vs. shopping, ordering, shipping, and losing ambition by the week after next when it finally shows up.

 

[wachuko]

Right. That's why we have the equipment. So we can spend 3 times as much on the material (since we buy in small qtys) and buy more equip.

Otherwise you are just a tool collector. And the important thing about DOING is you are learning during each project. That's the most important thing. An apprentice does a lot of make work, and small work that the experienced man does not need to do anymore. This is how they get the experience for moving toward becoming a better craftsman. SO get to work.

Soon!! Soon!!

 

[WobblyHand]

You guys are comparing apples to oranges. A press with a 17” throat like projectnut’s Greenerd or the even heavier Dake 1-1/2c is a completely different loading scenario than a standard-depth press like a Dake 1-1/2 or this Chinese ripoff of it. With more than twice the depth it will exert more than twice the moment arm on the casting behind the throat and thus will need twice the material to resist that force. All that additional weight at the back counterbalances the force on the handle and it won’t tip easily.

But it’s twice the footprint, more than twice the weight, and three times the cost.

The standard-throat press, no matter who makes it, will tip if it’s not bolted down.

Rick “and a tall press like a Dake 1-1/2b will tip even easier” Denney

Think you have misunderstood me. I am agreeing with you fully.