Transformer question

[olddude]

I don't understand. If you are going to sell it, you don't need to make it run on the electricity you have in your shop.
The future buyer may just have 480V in their shop.

With rigging cost the way they are I don't know of anyone who would want to take a chance on a machine that you can't see run. Well, anyone but me, I guess. LOL At this point I may just keep it.

 

[olddude]

Transformers are stupid. They can be used in MOST cases either way.
I personally have used many Transformers "backwards" with no ill effect.
Post some pictures.
The controller is either 24 vdc or 120 vac look for labels.

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines I had done that a couple times before on smaller machines, But I wouldn't take the chance on something like this. CNC and computers are finicky about things like that and with my luck it probably wouldn't work out for me. I had a guy that was going to help me with it, but he hasn't shown up yet.

 

[olddude]

I don't know machines and controls, but doesn't the control portion of the machine operate at some lower voltage that might be easier to obtain?

From what I see there are all kinds of different voltages this machine runs on in different places, some ACv some DCv circuits of different voltages. I'm not saying this can't be done, all I'm saying is I'm not the one that is going to try it.

 

[olddude]

First off, you got swindled. You should have pursued the issue when you received your lathe. I doubt that anything can be done now due to the passage of time.

Second, why don't you just purchase a 220V 3 phase (or even 1 phase) motor for the machine? It would probably cost just as much as a 240-480 transformer.

Yes, I did and the whole problem was the payment had to be done by wire transfer both the machines and the freight company. That's how all of those used machinery companies operate. I could have drove to KY and picked it up, but they talked me out of it. I would have had to pay sales tax on the sale if I picked it up at the dock and that would have been more than what the freight would have cost. The whole sale was a little over $35,000 and the tax man would have loved that. That was for the 3 machines I bought from them. I bought a series 2, 2 HP Bridgeport and a Johansen radial arm drill press along with the lathe.
As far as the changing of the motors thing it would not have been cost effective to try to rewire or change the motors. There was to many other changes that would have to be made if it was even possible to do that.

 

[olddude]

Transformers are just coils wrapped around some iron. They work in either direction. Just be aware of the power ratings on each side of the transformer and protect your equipment with fuses. If you're worried about exceptions, use a DMM to check it out. The coils should ohm out the same in either direction and the should be no continuity between the coils. A coil can be center trapped, too. If you're not sure about the wiring, hook up a winding to an auto transformer and investigate at low voltage. All the voltage ratios are constant because they are set by the number of turns in the coils. And good luck with those parameters.

Thanks, I'm checking with my electrician now to see if I will have to upsize some shop wiring in the shop and what else I may have to do to make this change.

 

[sdelivery]

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines I had done that a couple times before on smaller machines, But I wouldn't take the chance on something like this. CNC and computers are finicky about things like that and with my luck it probably wouldn't work out for me. I had a guy that was going to help me with it, but he hasn't shown up yet.

These are running cnc machines, Fanuc, Siemans, Fagor, Cincinnati and many others. This is over some thirty years.
most manual machines can be rewired For either high or low three phase voltages.

 

[olddude]

If it has a controller, I'm guessing you're looking at a CNC machine, not a manual lathe, but you should clarify that. So it will be the servo power supply(s) that run on 480VAC. Many of the CNC controllers run on 120VAC with their own internal power supply (basically an industrial PC). You should not need to use a transformer to see if the controller will boot.

I just found a manual for the Fagor 800T stating it needs to connected via an "...independent 110VA shielded transformer with an output voltage between 100VAC and 240VAC." For testing purposes a 120 VAC plug in to home power should suffice, shielding would be critical only when the servos are active. If you look in the control cabinet you can probably find the controller, and it may have a power cord going into the controller with the classic three prong interface, google IEC-320 for pictures. Editted to add: Page 12 (36th pdf page) of this pdf version of the 800T controller manuall shows the pwer input in the upper left area of the controller back panel. It also shows the location of the lithium RAM backup battery.

If it boots, it'll probably still alarm since nothing else has power, but that would give you a go/no-go on the controller. If it doesn't boot it may just be the "CMOS" clock battery that holds the boot params, which probably can be restored with the help of someone with some PC tech skills. (I'm not positive that the Fagor controllers are PC based, but it is possible) Just don't do something that erases the hard disk as likely re-acquiring the right OS, and control software, with licenses, would be prohibitive. Again, someone with skills in that area can help you make a copy of the hard disk before even trying anything else. I do that with Linux using the dd command personally, but there are a lot of ways to go about it.

I'm playing with slowly rebuilding a CNC mill (VMC) to run on a new controller. May never get done, like several projects I have, but it keeps me entertained.

Thank you so much for your response that's pretty much what I needed to know. Clausing sent me all the manuals for the machine and controller along with wiring diagrams. I just haven't had the chance to dive into them yet. Oh, and yes, it is a CNC/manual machine. It's a Clausing Metosa 17-45 Auto lathe. That's how I got talked into this machine. I figured I could run it manual until I could get up to speed on the CNC part. He didn't tell me that for it to be run manual the controller would still have to be working to do that. He led me to believe that if something happened to the CNC part, I could still run it manual.
I found a guy in town that said he can help even if it had lost all the parameters if he can get some help from Clausing who have been very helpful so far. A guy there named JR has gone way overboard to help me so far. He even remembered my name and the last time I spoke from him was probably almost a year ago. Having said that I have to get it under power before he can even look at it. I was just looking for a way to get it up without having to spend another couple thousand dollars just to see what I have.
I have a step-down transformer that was on a Breleigh chop saw I bought. It ran on 220 and the shop it was in had 480v power. Problem is that it is only a 3kw transformer and the machine has a 7.5kw power factor. To run this machine off transformer I will need a 15KW transformer or that is what I have been told. thanks again.... Oh, and I know what you mean about projects, don't get me started with that. LOL

 

[olddude]

Most motors can be rewired to 220 volts.
You will have to investigate the drives as most are high voltage or low voltage.
If it is an Asian machine it is most likely equipped with low voltage drives.

The main spindle motor can't be rewired it's just a 480 motor. Even if it was some way to rewire it there are so many other things that would have to be changed also, and that would cost more than the machine is worth.

 

[olddude]

Can I run this on a 30 Amp circuit from the 3-phase box to the machine? My phase converter is 20 HP fed by a 60 amp circuit at the main panel.