To ground, or not to ground...

Small town life... As far as I know inspections are not required here unless it is new construction, or you're buying or selling. I wouldn't know where to go to find an inspector.

As mentioned above, you need to separate ground and neutral in the panel for any sub panels. NEC, covers the whole us. You need 4 wires going to the garage. Run the biggest thing you can.

You can have multiple ground rods, however these all need to be bonded together. Ground is Ground is Ground no matter where you are. Ground and Neutral get bonded together ONLY in the main service entrance panel (your house). (There are obscure failures, where if this isn't the case, you could get electrocuted).

If you can find a Mom and Pop electrical supply/electrician a lot of them will guide you on how to do it properly if you buy the materials from them.

If you call your local inspector, he/she may make you pull a permit. Permit or not, I'd do it by code regardless. Code is there to keep you safe. Inspections just make sure you follow code.
 
So I am currently upgrading my electrical service in my garage/shop.
Previously what I had in the garage was 120V only. There was a simple dis-connect switch to control the lights and outlets. There is a 10/3 cable dug underground running from the main breaker panel to the garage. This cable has NO ground wire in it (wasn't important in the 50's..) Yes, I am just plain lucky that I have never had anything short out in the years I've lived here!
I am installing a basic sub-panel in the garage now so I can have 220V power on breakers. My dilemma is that I have no ground connection with the main breaker panel. Am I correct in thinking that I must run a ground wire back to the house, and connect to the ground bus in the main panel? I plan to place two earth ground rods in the process.
I think I know the answer but am hoping for a qualified opinion on this.
Thanks!
The NEC call for bond and a neutral. I would run at less 6 gauge copper or large.

Dave
 
So I am currently upgrading my electrical service in my garage/shop.
Previously what I had in the garage was 120V only. There was a simple dis-connect switch to control the lights and outlets. There is a 10/3 cable dug underground running from the main breaker panel to the garage. This cable has NO ground wire in it (wasn't important in the 50's..) Yes, I am just plain lucky that I have never had anything short out in the years I've lived here!
I am installing a basic sub-panel in the garage now so I can have 220V power on breakers. My dilemma is that I have no ground connection with the main breaker panel. Am I correct in thinking that I must run a ground wire back to the house, and connect to the ground bus in the main panel? I plan to place two earth ground rods in the process.
I think I know the answer but am hoping for a qualified opinion on this.
Thanks!
Just so we're all on the same page.......are you planning to bury a new( and proper ) feed conductor between your main and the new sub panel, or do you intend to use the old circa 1950's ungrounded 10/3?( which I certainly hope you aren't going to do ). What is the capacity of the new sub panel, and how much do you wish to load it with?
 
Do not listen to us...;-)

Make a trip to your LOCAL building department and ask them.

The NEC is national code, but local jurisdictions base their code on the NEC.

All points should be grounded back to the master or meter ground, but sometimes a sub panel may have an additional lock ground, the neutral is not bonded here.

Ground loops in lightening storms could be issue, additional grounds may improve the system, depending on soil and existing ground.

Your local inspector can tell you what you need to do at your place to meet code.

Take measurements and photos, no need to share address...

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 
Thanks to all for the feedback! I think I'm seeing things more clearly now. Yes, I will look into running a new cable WITH ground wire from the main to the sub panel. Not the easiest way forward, but the better way!
 
just out of curiosity, why wouldn't an earth ground work?

IIRC NEC allows up to 25 ohms to earth in some cases, 5 ohms is considered "good". A short to the grounded frame of something should trip the breaker. Without a "bond" path back to neutral, at 5 ohms, a 20 amp 120V circuit breaker is getting 100 volts before tripping, more really since a breaker will trip at something greater than 20amps. So the ground lead and everything attached could be at something just under 100volts and the breaker wouldn't trip. Bad karma if somebody touches such a grounded chassis.

The bond point from ground to neutral is what trips the breaker. The purpose of the ground rod is actually to keep your wiring system from building up a higher offset potential, basically so your home wiring doesn't act like a big antenna generating interference on all sorts of frequencies/channels. Isolating the system from earth (i.e. no ground rod) actually reduces electrocution hazards.

Multiple bond points create other problems, ground loop potentials, causing noise on your electrical wiring that can mess with sensitive equipment in your home.

Then you get into the whole realm of "what if" safety analysis. Electrical wiring is designed to withstand common failures. Wire connections can corrode, lightning can strike nearby, things break. The wiring code is designed to provide some protection against some degree of failure. A lot of that is based on the school of hard knocks, what kind of failures are common and problematic. That's why "it works" is not considered sufficient for wiring, modern electrical systems are suppose to both work, and fail in a safe way.
 
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They are referring to bonding. Your panel should have neutral and ground but they should not tie together in the panel. You will have one ground strip and one neutral strip. In your main panel they will be tied together with a buss bar
This is correct. Even though you may have multiple sub-panels, the Neutral and the Ground wires are only connected back at the main panel by a bar. The main panel ground is connected to an earth ground, which is a long rod into the ground or sometimes a conducting water pipe that goes under ground. This point is located near the meter. Ironically, the power into the house only had three wires, two hots and a neutral. Some place out in the power system there is an earth ground connected to the neutral.

So if you are running new wire definitly run a 4 wire system so that you can connect the ground an neutral to gether back at the main, not at the garage. On the other hand if the garage was a long way from the main (200 ft.?) and you already have good three wire feed I would not hesitate to sink another ground rod and create an earth ground at the garage. Yes, this may cause some electrical noise, but I believe it would be safe.

Somewhere at some point I seem to recall reading in the many codes that if the distance to the sub-panel that is in an external building is over some distance away from the main then a second earth ground should/could be used.

By the way, while there is a national electrical code it is not a fixed law or something. Each city or other governing body can rewrite the code to their specifics desires. It is common that they will take the NEC (National Electrical Code) Handbook or the NFPA 70 National Electrical Code and just adopt sections of it, not the whole thing. NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) is not a law by the federal or state governments. It is a private organization that writes and promotes standards. Likewise, even though it has the word National in it I think that NEC handbooks are written by a few. I have the 2008 version a well as other versions but have quit purchasing them as they are a money making effort by the organizations. ~$150 for the NEC handbook. My version was authored by 4 individuals who I am sure make money doing so. They change it essentially every year and I believe that it is used to promote new products by industry. My making some things part of their code the companies can then charge more and the old products, where the patents have expired, are no longer the standards. If you do not believe me, just go to you hardware store and look at the differences in the prices of a simple electrical outlet plug. The older devices cost $0.50 while the newer still patented devices typically cost $3-$4. As an example, electrical outlets that are "child proof" are now suppose to be used according to the Code. They have a plastic inserts built into them that only lets one plug in a device if both prongs are inserted at the same time. However, they tend to break and they do not hold the inserted plug well. So the circuit commonly fails due to this poor mechanical system.
Likewise, there is something called "spark arrestor" or "arc fault circuit breaker". It has taken the ground fault interrupter an additional step. It is also required by the code .... in some cities. In my town they are required in bed rooms. It is suppose to monitor for arcs such as from a frayed lamp cord etc. This is ok, but plug in a vaccum cleaner, which uses a brushed motor and the brush arc will trip them. A pain!
 
IIRC NEC allows up to 25 ohms to earth in some cases, 5 ohms is considered "good". Without a "bond" path back to neutral, a short to the grounded frame of something should trip the breaker. At 5 ohms, a 20 amp 120V circuit breaker is getting 100 volts before tripping, more really since a breaker will trip at something greater than 20amps. So the ground lead and everything attached could be at something just under 100volts and the breaker wouldn't trip. Bad karma if somebody touches such a grounded chassis.

The bond point from ground to neutral is what trips the breaker. The purpose of the ground rod is actually to keep your wiring system from building up a higher offset potential, basically so your home wiring doesn't act like a big antenna generating interference on all sorts of frequencies/channels. Isolating the system from earth (i.e. no ground rod) actually reduces electrocution hazards.

Multiple bond points create other problems, ground loop potentials, causing noise on your electrical wiring that can mess with sensitive equipment in your home.

Then you get into the whole realm of "what if" safety analysis. Electrical wiring is designed to withstand common failures. Wire connections can corrode, lightning can strike nearby, things break. The wiring code is designed to provide some protection against some degree of failure. A lot of that is based on the school of hard knocks, what kind of failures are common and problematic. That's why "it works" is not considered sufficient for wiring, modern electrical systems are suppose to both work, and fail in a safe way.
Back when I was involved in putting telephone systems in Alaskan villages, the central office for one on the Alaskan Peninsula had problems getting an adequate ground. This was because the ground was sand (actually volcanic ash) which would not hold water and had little conductivity. We ended up with a grid of 36 ground rods, each 20' long, spaced 6' apart and tied together with #6 copper wire. Even this was less than the engineers wanted, but in the end, they just settled for what they could get. The ground system was tested with a "megger" in order to get an accurate reading.
 
Code is there to keep you safe. Inspections just make sure you follow code.

Kinda, usually, mostly. There are installations that NEC doesn't apply to. I'm in one of those.
I always viewed the code not as the way it "should be", but more as "if you did it any worse than this, it'd be illegal".
 
A sparkie once told me: "Every line in the NEC is there because someone died."
 
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