Knurling advice

[darkzero]

That's very interesting Mike, I've never heard that before. All the formulas & calculators I use & have seen are to prevent double tracking like how I mentioned earlier. They've always worked for me & that's how I was taught. 2 general formulas that I'm aware of, one for diametral pitch wheels & another for circular pitch wheels.

I don't even know how to make a knurl for a spec'd size, I have an idea but it's just an idea & have no idea how it's actually done. I don't make production parts nor have I ever needed to make a knurl to a specific OD for a press fit so I really don't care. The main purpose for knurling is for grip but for me, cosmetic comes first, then functionality cause I'm anal like that, lol. Like Brino I don't care about the finished size.

When I knurl hard materials like SS & Ti that work harden easy, there's no way I can just continue feeding to make the knurl form & track properly. I don't even like to make a second pass on hard materials, I do it in one shot. I've tried & tried when I was learning, not once did it work for me. The materials are too hard to displace that much & will work harden before coming out right. I always calculate for diameters & I have a pretty high success rate even though I dread knurling every single time on those materials.

Lots of good info in this thread though, whatever works for someone is all that matters.

Accu-Trak has very good info on knurling. https://www.accu-trak.com/technicalinfo.html

 

[mikey]

I once had to replace a broken head stud that had rusted. This was a long time ago but I think the head gasket was blown and it allowed water to corrode the stud. Anyway, we had to pull the stud out and I opted to make a replacement stud rather than buy the set; they didn't sell just one. I had to learn how to bring that knurl to size and thread the other end ... all on a Sherline lathe, which is all I had at the time. I made the knurl slightly larger so it would bite in that hole and it worked. That engine is still running.

I'm with you guys most of the time - I knurl for decorative purposes 99.9% of the time. I don't do exotic stuff like Ti but I've done stainless enough to know that you have to know how to do it right the first time.

I'm not arguing that you shouldn't calculate. There are times when you need to do it, such as when you need a specific fit or like Will says, when you are working with stuff that is intolerant of error. For most common materials like brass, aluminum or mild steel, we can get away with not calculating if we choose to do so. There are a lot of guys like me who don't bother with calculators and have been doing so for years - give it a try and see if it works for you.

 

[Silverbullet]

I've done lots of knurling on lots of materials . The amount of pressure it takes to basically dent the material per line or crossed lines is much more then anyone thinks . One reason the small LATHES don't work with the direct pressure on the tool post is enough to saverely damage your machine , broken cross slides and compounds ,tool post at minimum . About fifty years ago I bought one which you set it on the work piece two wheels under one whell over adjustable with a pin , you then turned the lathe on and squeezed the handles with your grip to cut the knurls . Every once in awhile I see one on eBay but ill say one thing it hurts to put the amount of pressure it takes to knurl. Think I paid about twenty bucks in 1975 new from msc I even had an account with them .
That eagle brand model works great too.

 

[mikey]

@darkzero , which Eagle Rock knurler do you have? I've been thinking about this subject and I want to look into a new knurler. I have an Aloris AXA-19 and a shop-made knurler. Both work well but after seeing what you can do with that Eagle Rock, I'm having some thoughts. See what I mean about coveting and helping guys spend money?

From what I can see, I would need the one for manual lathes and the 0 - 2-1/8" version comes with a 5/8" part that fits in a tool holder, right? If I'm not mistaken, I think ER also makes a "heavy duty" version but it isn't listed in their catalog. Any info on that?

My shop-made knurler actually works better than my Aloris one. I think its because the fit of my axles in the knurls is better - very little discernible play. I suspect the ER knurler will have a better fit as well. I also plan to get some Accu-trak knurls to go with it so I'm sorta serious about this. Well, after I recover from spending 60K on a home improvement project I have going right now.

 

[darkzero]

@darkzero , which Eagle Rock knurler do you have? I've been thinking about this subject and I want to look into a new knurler. I have an Aloris AXA-19 and a shop-made knurler. Both work well but after seeing what you can do with that Eagle Rock, I'm having some thoughts. See what I mean about coveting and helping guys spend money?

From what I can see, I would need the one for manual lathes and the 0 - 2-1/8" version comes with a 5/8" part that fits in a tool holder, right? If I'm not mistaken, I think ER also makes a "heavy duty" version but it isn't listed in their catalog. Any info on that?

My shop-made knurler actually works better than my Aloris one. I think its because the fit of my axles in the knurls is better - very little discernible play. I suspect the ER knurler will have a better fit as well. I also plan to get some Accu-trak knurls to go with it so I'm sorta serious about this. Well, after I recover from spending 60K on a home improvement project I have going right now.

Haha! Sure happy to help!

Yes, that's exactly what I have, the Eagle Rock K1-44 heavy duty knurler, 0 - 2-1/8". Mine has a 3/4" shank & uses the standard knurls. There's a counterbored version also that allows to to knurl up to a shoulder but they're not as strong as the standard & they use special wheels. I'm also using solid carbide knurl pins & convex cobalt knurl wheels by Accu-Trak. I replaced the top nut with a nyloc nut.

I knew a guy on another forum who had the BXA-19. He said it didn't work well for him. But we were all on a quest to get perfect knurling on Ti 6-4.

Those K1-44s are not cheap though, over $300 new. They're less expensive K1-201 looks similar but doesn't perform the same on tough metals. Still a good knurler too though. Now here's that part where you might hate me...or more. I got 3/4" shank cause I didn't have a choice. Years ago I found my K1-44 on ebay, looked like it was never used, not one set screw mark on the shank. It was listed simply as "Knurling Tool", no description. $80 shipped buy it now. Took one look at it & when I saw the stamp on the shank I clicked buy it now as fast as I could!

I've also got a little Dorian straddle knurler, you can see it sitting on the saddle. I've never tried it though & it has a really small shank. I only picked it up a while back cause Travers was clearing them out for $50.

 

[darkzero]

Just to clarify, The Aloris, K1-201, shoulder type K1-44, & other popular tools aren't bad knurling tools & are very capable. When I say they're not as as strong, I mean as in comparison to the standard K1-44. My main goal was to achieve full form diamond knurling on Ti 6-4. I had a time when the knurling force so strong that no matter how tight I tightened down my Dorian tool post, it would just spin when traversing, even tried brown paper under it. I had to use the dowel pins under the Dorian to pin it to the T-nut.

Oh and Accu-Trak has a nice looking heavy duty scissor knurler tool, they call it a straddle knurler. But it's not cheap either. https://www.accu-trak.com/holders_straddle.html

 

[mikey]

Haha! Sure happy to help!

Now here's that part where you might hate me...or more. I got 3/4" shank cause I didn't have a choice. Years ago I found my K1-44 on ebay, looked like it was never used, not one set screw mark on the shank. It was listed simply as "Knurling Tool", no description. $80 shipped buy it now. Took one look at it & when I saw the stamp on the shank I clicked buy it now as fast as I could!

Thanks, Will. That is exactly what I needed to see. Now that I know what I'm looking for, I'll watch ebay. As I told @EmilioG , the patienter I am, the luckier I get. The only reason I'm even thinking about it is that I want to make some stainless knurled rear set pegs for my son's bike. He doesn't know I'm going to make them so it will be a nice surprise.

You've set a pretty high standard, Will, in both knurling and in your photographs - superb quality!

Thank you for your help to me and the rest of the forum.

Mike

 

[mikey]

Just to clarify, The Aloris, K1-201, shoulder type K1-44, & other popular tools aren't bad knurling tools & are very capable. When I say they're not as as strong, I mean as in comparison to the standard K1-44. My main goal was to achieve full form diamond knurling on Ti 6-4. I had a time when the knurling force so strong that no matter how tight I tightened down my Dorian tool post, it would just spin when traversing, even tried brown paper under it. I had to use the dowel pins under the Dorian to pin it to the T-nut.

Oh and Accu-Trak has a nice looking heavy duty scissor knurler tool, they call it a straddle knurler. But it's not cheap either. https://www.accu-trak.com/holders_straddle.html

You are not making this easier on me, Will. $359.00 for a knurler is pretty steep for a tool that will not earn its keep but it does look formidable. If I can't go to sleep tonight, it will be all your fault.

 

[darkzero]

Thanks Mike & thank you as well for sharing your knowledge here. You're a great & helpful member here as well as others. When someone needs help, you always seem to be there!

Yeah those knurling tools aren't cheap, I would have a hard time paying full price for one, especially for something that doesn't get used as often as say a tool post or chuck.

Although I don't need another I look for them too. I also look for cut knurlers. Cut knurlers are awesome & I've always wanted one. You should see how much those things go for! If I come across something I'll be sure to let you know.

 

[darkzero]

Custom SS knurled foot pegs would be cool!

Unrealted, I was looking through some of my old knurling pics, did you guys know you could knurl delrin, like form knurl, not cut knurl. It was an experiment I did when someone asked on another forum.

First try was just a partial form. On the second band I tried full form but without any lube, it melted. Then with lube, it worked, not very clean crisp peaks but decent considering I did not think it would work at all.