Cut off blades, Inside diameter measurments, and backhoe woes

[Ray C]

OK Tom, you got your head on straight. I'm relieved you didn't get offended.

I'm not sure where the lines are drawn about liability for used equipment. -And I'd sure hate to find-out the hard way! I've had folks ask me to repair trailer hitches... Even had a guy ask me to fix a tie rod (which could be replaced for 30 bucks). ...Haeeeck no!

43 and 4140 is good stuff! Both are considered "low-end" tool steels which translates to "high-end" manufacturing steel. If you ever find-out the precise heat treatment that the factory pins have, please let me know. I'm really curious.

Ray

Ray you are right on the nose about "Homemade Parts", they are not to be trusted. This is a machine I use on the farm only, and would never do something like this for anyone but me, and if pins and bushings were still available from Case it would have been less expensive to purchase them, even considering that my labor is fairly inexpensive.

For the pins I've used 4340 and 4140. Have not made any attempt to harden them. I hope they wear and produce enought slop that before they break the machine is not usable.

I've had machine for over 20 years, and don't use it enough to warrent anything newer, nor do want to sell as a working machine. Even selling "as is where is" over the years I've done so many repairs I'd hate to be responsible for something going wrong at a critical moment. It's sad, but I don't think you can get away from liability on anything that has the ability to "overhead" lift even years after the fact.

Tom

 

[jmh8743]

I also have a Dahatsu loader, 45C...Pins and bushings, Yuck. right now my high $ loader is worthless.
For me I gave up on those telescoping gauges when i worked on race car engines. i use a dial bore gage, works well for even me. Found several on the ebay.
hardening low carbon steel, just to consider, bought mine 10 yrs ago, I quote:

Kasenit provides an easy way to harden soft, low carbon metals without the use of special equipment. Kasenit in combination with high heat creates a tough, durable, hardened finish on the surface of metals.
Great item for blacksmith, machine shop, welding shop, hobbyist, gunsmiths, antique & tractor restoration shops. Helps keep the edge sharp on expensive drill bits, milling and grinding tools, punches, firing pins, hammer davits, trigger pins, sears, and cocking pieces.
Produces a wear surface (surface hardening) on low carbon steel, low alloy steel, iron.
non-poisonous, non-explosive.
Application instructions (from Kasenit) for Low Alloy or Low Carbon Steel:
There are two methods of application.
Method A: Heat the work uniformly to a bright red (1650 - 1700 degrees F), remove any scale with a wire brush, dip, roll or sprinkle the Kasenit powder on the component. The powder will melt and adhere to the surface, forming a shell around the work. Reheat to 1650 - 1700 degrees F, hold at this temperature for a few minutes and quench in to clean cold water. This will give the component a completely hard case of uniform character and depth.
Method B: If a deeper case is required, then a container for the compound can be used. A discarded can, lid or tray is suitable for this purpose, but care must be taken to burn off the tin coating before use. Completely cover the component with compound and heat to a bright red (1650 degrees F) for five to thirty minutes, depending upon the depth of case required. Quench only the component in clean, cold water unsing dry tongs for handling.

Mike in Cullman
My grandaddy was a blacksmith

Disclaimer: I do not benefit in any purchase of a Kasenit product. Futhermore, the by product of the reaction is similar to cyanide gas. Use it in the open or vented.

 

[Kevin45]

One other thing you can do instead of using telescoping gages, is to turn a plug gage. Make it long enough to be useful to yourself. On one have of the plug make it to the size you need. On the other end, turn it down .005 smaller. You can now sneak up to your final size knowing you have .005 to play with. Cheap and easy.

 

[cross thread]

Hi TIB , I don't know the situation you are using the bushings nor did I read every single post here. So I don't understand why you would
be using hardened 01 . My choice would be oilite or just bronze or brass . With clearance of .003 + .001 -.000. Also your question about the P type cut off blades is a good one, and
I couldn't find a good answer . If someone already did, sorry . I always had better results with the P types , because of all the relief angles .
I always used the Colbalt .

 

[TIB]

Hi TIB , I don't know the situation you are using the bushings nor did I read every single post here. So I don't understand why you would
be using hardened 01 . My choice would be oilite or just bronze or brass . With clearance of .003 + .001 -.000. Also your question about the P type cut off blades is a good one, and
I couldn't find a good answer . If someone already did, sorry . I always had better results with the P types , because of all the relief angles .
I always used the Colbalt .

The main reason I've used hardened bushings and softer pins is to keep the wear in the pins and bushings rather than the frame of the backhoe. I've know of Skidders using plastic bushings in the grab, but am not aware of any brass or composite materials being used in backhoe or loader applications. Would sure rather work with something more forgiving than 01.

Some positions had factory installed bushings, and in some positions the pins worked directly against the frame. Where bushings are used, the old bushings only get shined up when filed.

Thank you for your help and reply
Tom

- - - Updated - - -

One other thing you can do instead of using telescoping gages, is to turn a plug gage. Make it long enough to be useful to yourself. On one have of the plug make it to the size you need. On the other end, turn it down .005 smaller. You can now sneak up to your final size knowing you have .005 to play with. Cheap and easy.

I gave up on the telescopic gages I had and went to plug gage approach, found that using feeler gages with the plug gage worked fine for this application. After some sage advise from Ray C and Tony I bought a set of name brand telescoping gages and they have worked very well. Maybe it was all in my mind, but the new set seem to work much better than the old Harbor Freight gages.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Tom

 

[TIB]

I also have a Dahatsu loader, 45C...Pins and bushings, Yuck. right now my high $ loader is worthless.
For me I gave up on those telescoping gauges when i worked on race car engines. i use a dial bore gage, works well for even me. Found several on the ebay.
hardening low carbon steel, just to consider, bought mine 10 yrs ago, I quote:

Kasenit provides an easy way to harden soft, low carbon metals without the use of special equipment. Kasenit in combination with high heat creates a tough, durable, hardened finish on the surface of metals.
Great item for blacksmith, machine shop, welding shop, hobbyist, gunsmiths, antique & tractor restoration shops. Helps keep the edge sharp on expensive drill bits, milling and grinding tools, punches, firing pins, hammer davits, trigger pins, sears, and cocking pieces.
Produces a wear surface (surface hardening) on low carbon steel, low alloy steel, iron.
non-poisonous, non-explosive.
Application instructions (from Kasenit) for Low Alloy or Low Carbon Steel:
There are two methods of application.
Method A: Heat the work uniformly to a bright red (1650 - 1700 degrees F), remove any scale with a wire brush, dip, roll or sprinkle the Kasenit powder on the component. The powder will melt and adhere to the surface, forming a shell around the work. Reheat to 1650 - 1700 degrees F, hold at this temperature for a few minutes and quench in to clean cold water. This will give the component a completely hard case of uniform character and depth.
Method B: If a deeper case is required, then a container for the compound can be used. A discarded can, lid or tray is suitable for this purpose, but care must be taken to burn off the tin coating before use. Completely cover the component with compound and heat to a bright red (1650 degrees F) for five to thirty minutes, depending upon the depth of case required. Quench only the component in clean, cold water unsing dry tongs for handling.

Mike in Cullman
My grandaddy was a blacksmith

Disclaimer: I do not benefit in any purchase of a Kasenit product. Futhermore, the by product of the reaction is similar to cyanide gas. Use it in the open or vented.

Mike I appreciate the informatin and am going to save it!
Tom

 

[eightball]

I like the starrett telescoping guages that have one fixed side and only the smaller side moves. I get a better feel with them than i do with the ones that telescope on both sides. Dont know the starrett no. off the top of my head, will look tomorrow if i get a chance.

 

[eightball]

They are starrett # S229G.

 

[onecut jimmy]

Eight Ball I understand your problems To me they are all minor .But I have 70 plus years experience .
In 1942 I started taking a machinist class in high school, In 1944 I stared my machinist apprenticeship, in 1948 I got my journeyman papers. In 1950 I started my Tool & Die maker apprenticeship . In 1954 I got my journeyman papers. During those years i went to night school to get my mechanical engineer s degree.

lET'S START WITH THE PIN & BUSHING PROBLEM IMO The bushings should be made of bearing bronze or tobin Bronze. The inside should haveoil grove with a hole to the outside for oiling.
If you could give me a sketch of the pin & bushings, I ccould tell you what materials to use and what th heat treat , The hole size, the pin diameter etc.
As fo the use of telescoping gauges. Machinist use them all the time. Their accuracy depends on your ability to use them. I started without inside mics, telescoping gauges, dial calipers etc. I had to use inside calipers and outside mics to measure holes. Can you explain how you are using telescoping gauges.
I will tell you most people use them wrong. Do you know they are self centering?
If you PM me your phone number I will call you and explain how to use them.