How small of a lathe?

[GeneT45]

Bigger is better - to a point. My lathe is 4500# and I really don't want bigger - but I don't want anything smaller, either. Something I didn't see mentioned in the foregoing is that quality generally improves as you go bigger as well. There are exceptions, if you can find a SB 10" toolroom (under 300lbs) or a Myford Super7 or some other unicorn, those are very nice lightweight machines. They won't magically spin a few pounds off-center very well, but their build quality is excellent. With the imports, as rule of thumb I'd say quality is generally quite a bit better at ~1024 than it is on the smaller machines.

Figure out how much space and weight you could possibly handle and how much you could possibly spent (bearing in mind that you'll ultimately spend probably more than the lathe on accessories) and go right there without regrets. I've belonged to a number of machinists / model engineers clubs and never heard anyone complain about buying too much lathe - but I've heard a lot of complaints about buying too little, and known several people who went through 2-3 (and one person that went through 4(!!)) lathes before buying one they were satisfied with. If it means putting off your purchase for six months consider that time well invested. Particularly if you're tooling up for a lathe you get rid of in short order. Economy here is really about buying 'right' the first time.

(Full disclosure - my lathe is my second machine because the first wasn't satisfactory...)

GsT

 

[Charles scozzari]

Whenever I see titles like "How small of a Lathe (or mill)?" my immediate thought that runs through my mind is HUGE!

I can not agree more with that statement.

 

[MrWhoopee]

A 10" is right in the sweet spot, just about the smallest and the largest you would want at the same time. It's not just the capacity, it's also the rigidity that counts, and that comes from mass. Don't let the weight deter you, more is better. My SB Heavy 10L is around 1000 lbs. I had some help getting it off the liftgate, but from there I moved it with pipe rollers, pry bar and come-along by myself. It was much easier to postion than my 1600 lb. mill.

 

[chapmro]

Bigger is better - to a point. My lathe is 4500# and I really don't want bigger - but I don't want anything smaller, either. Something I didn't see mentioned in the foregoing is that quality generally improves as you go bigger as well. There are exceptions, if you can find a SB 10" toolroom (under 300lbs) or a Myford Super7 or some other unicorn, those are very nice lightweight machines. They won't magically spin a few pounds off-center very well, but their build quality is excellent. With the imports, as rule of thumb I'd say quality is generally quite a bit better at ~1024 than it is on the smaller machines.

Figure out how much space and weight you could possibly handle and how much you could possibly spent (bearing in mind that you'll ultimately spend probably more than the lathe on accessories) and go right there without regrets. I've belonged to a number of machinists / model engineers clubs and never heard anyone complain about buying too much lathe - but I've heard a lot of complaints about buying too little, and known several people who went through 2-3 (and one person that went through 4(!!)) lathes before buying one they were satisfied with. If it means putting off your purchase for six months consider that time well invested. Particularly if you're tooling up for a lathe you get rid of in short order. Economy here is really about buying 'right' the first time.

(Full disclosure - my lathe is my second machine because the first wasn't satisfactory...)

GsT

This seems to be a common thread, that the weight is worth it for spinning something off-center. All the milling machine ever has to spin is a mill, while the lathe has to spin all kinds of heavy weird stuff. Interesting you mention the Myford Super 7. I had never heard of it until yesterday when I saw one for sale within driving distance. But they are asking $10,000. It has a ton of tooling and appears in fantastic condition, but that seems still quite a bit too high (estate sale I believe). In any event it's more than I can spend by probably a factor of 3.

 

[chapmro]

If you’re happy with the precision Matthews I’d stick with them. Weight is a good thing for lathes and if you know where it’s going you only have to move it once. I move my 12x36 lathe by myself with an engine hoist and it’s over 600lbs.

If your time is limited and you’d rather make parts than rebuild a brand new machine stick with the known sellers. PM, Grizzly, and LMS. Anything else is a c***shoot.

John

Good to know I'm not missing any companies -- LMS, Grizzly, and PM all seem to do good customer service. Right now I am thinking the PM is probably the choice I'll be happiest with in the long term.

 

[chapmro]

I have been happy with my Grizzly G0602 (10 x 22). My previous lathe was an Atlas/Craftsman 6x18 which I found too small. The 602 isn't a fancy lathe but generally speaking rather well built, considering the cost. The PM 10x22 has better features but also higher cost. The 602 weighs in at 453 lbs, shipping wt. but if you remove the crate, the two chucks and faceplate, and the follower and steady rest, you will lose over 100 lbs. While a hoist is the best way to maneuver it, at the cost of a few beers, several friends can lift the lathe up to a bench or stand.

If you want something lighter, the Grizzly G4000 is the little brother. At just under 300 lbs, shipping wt. it is more easily move about. It has a 3/4 hp motor vs the 1 hp on the 602 and an inch less swing and 3 inches less travel. I have worked with that lathe too and I was impressed sufficiently with it that it was the primary reason for deciding to go with the 602 rather than a different brand.

My maneuvered the 602 crate into place in my basement shop by sliding the pallet using a pry bar to walk it. To lift my 602 onto the stand, I installed a sky hook in the floor joists above and used a come-along. This was a non eventful; single person endeavor.

The G0602 seems like it is the same basic machine as the PM1022. It looks to me like for $800 you lose the QCTP, the variable speeds (is that really that important -- I've been told you need low rpm, like 25-50, to cut threads well?), and the power cross-feed. Have you added any of those features later, or do you find yourself happy without them?

 

[matthewsx]

The G0602 seems like it is the same basic machine as the PM1022. It looks to me like for $800 you lose the QCTP, the variable speeds (is that really that important -- I've been told you need low rpm, like 25-50, to cut threads well?), and the power cross-feed. Have you added any of those features later, or do you find yourself happy without them?

I’ve retrofitted both my lathes with variable speed drives. Yes, you want this. And power cross feed for parting and facing.

You can get along without either but for the $800 delta I’d get them.

John

 

[MrWhoopee]

This seems to be a common thread, that the weight is worth it for spinning something off-center. All the milling machine ever has to spin is a mill, while the lathe has to spin all kinds of heavy weird stuff. Interesting you mention the Myford Super 7. I had never heard of it until yesterday when I saw one for sale within driving distance. But they are asking $10,000. It has a ton of tooling and appears in fantastic condition, but that seems still quite a bit too high (estate sale I believe). In any event it's more than I can spend by probably a factor of 3.

I believe you misunderstood. Mass is a simple indicator of the rigidity of the machine. This gives the machine the ability to resisit deflection of the cutter and damp out vibrations, both of which contribute to chatter. This is not related to eccentricity of the part. Light machines have a marked tendency to chatter, limiting depth of cut and producing poor finishes and difficulty controlling size. Light milling machines suffer from these same problems for the same reasons. Even at 1600 lbs., Bridgeport type mills are recognized for their versatility more than their rigidity. A Monarch 10ee is probably the most rigid small lathe ever made. It weighs 3450 lbs.

That's a ridiculous price for the Myford, even if spectacularly tooled.

 

[ttabbal]

Being somewhat new myself, I debated similar issues. I was initially planning to get a PM1020, but got talked into moving up to the PM1127. I'm glad I did. The slightly larger machine doesn't seem like it would make a big difference, but there are some design changes that make it more rigid. It's not going to compete with a 1440, more to maximize capability for the size and price. I'd love a big machine in the 1440 class, but I'm not willing to pay for one, so unless a killer deal shows up I have what I have. And it is a nice machine for my needs, I just have to be a little more patient than I would like sometimes.

When considering bed length, keep in mind that they measure center to center, no chucks etc.. So any tooling you add takes up space in there, including the main chuck, drill chuck, etc.. Some people working with mini lathes run into trouble drilling as the length of the drill bit and chuck eats up a lot more space than you might expect. There are ways to work around that, but just know what it is so you can make an informed decision.

Variable speed makes a bigger difference than you might think. Sometimes, being able to change the speed by 50RPM gives a better finish or gets rid of chatter. It's certainly not the end of the world not to have it, but I wouldn't want to lose it. Power cross feed is the same sort of thing. Being able to slow down for threading is nice, but also check out Joe Pie's youtube channel for his take on threading.

At this size/price range, you probably have change gears to deal with. Again, not the end of the world, but they can be irritating. A number of people, including myself, have been adding electronic leadscrew setups to get around it and make switching between threading and power feed faster and easier. No need to be in a rush to do it, but something to be aware of at least as a possibility.

I'm only mentioning PM as they are the ones I am most familiar with the options for. I have no basis for comparison with other brands. I will say I've been pretty happy with PM overall before and after sale. And that I haven't heard anything bad about LMS/Grizzly.

 

[Charles scozzari]

I believe you misunderstood. Mass is a simple indicator of the rigidity of the machine. This gives the machine the ability to resisit deflection of the cutter and damp out vibrations, both of which contribute to chatter. This is not related to eccentricity of the part. Light machines have a marked tendency to chatter, limiting depth of cut and producing poor finishes and difficulty controlling size. Light milling machines suffer from these same problems for the same reasons. Even at 1600 lbs., Bridgeport type mills are recognized for their versatility more than their rigidity.

That's a ridiculous price for the Myford, even if spectacularly tooled.

Absolute rigidity is a tough one with the percentage of the home machinists machines. The condition of the machine also comes into play be it a lathe or mill. Rigitity along with eccessive backlash at the feeds are a problem that also shows up in the work in the form of chatter.