Building a wood bench for a lathe

[mickri]

I just did a quick search on the Dallas/Fort Worth CL for desks and found 19 old wooden and steel desks all the way from free up to $100.

 

[Ischgl99]

Very nice, I like the idea of epoxying those mounting brackets to the bottom of the legs. Paint is a nice touch as well, looks much more professional.

I wanted it to look nice, and to keep the wood in decent condition. The paint has held up well, but when it was fresh, some hot chips would stick to it. The weight probably would have been sufficient for the leg brackets, but I figured epoxy couldn’t hurt, and it would make it a more rigid connection.

 

[ryanj1234]

With stud grade stuff, I might agree to a point. Carefully thought out and well built however, wood benches can be remarkably strong. With "good wood" however, it might be cheaper to buy a welder and steel, and a week long welding class......

Lesser woods, even right down to stud grade can still be remarkably stout. It just puts the onus on you to make sure that the overall thing is built well, joints fit well, flats line up. Bolted or screwed, you'll still want well fitting joints. Glue, (again, done with care and strategy) in any joints that are going to be "tested" in normal use, be it for supporting weight or resisting racking or whatever....

I've got this project on my "medium term" radar. My bench will be wood, not because I "have to", not because I "need to", not because it's "better", but because I enjoy such things, and it's what I want. And because it will be the way I want (mostly), it's not going to be as stout as I could make it. Way more so than steel of the same weight. Nowhere close to as stout as steel of the same volume. But it will be at the point where the returns (in my world) won't be tangible.




1.) Wood does contract and expand. If the overall assembly is made of the same wood not over constrained, maintains some degree of geometrical symmetry in it's structural components, it won't be trememdous. Or it will, but it'll be symmetrical. The frame you have pictured, all the "lumber" that makes up the bulk of the bench, that won't bother you at all. Wood expands on it's width (across the grain) much moreso than it does lengthwise. And even if it did expand an unacceptable amount lengthwise, the symmetry says that it's' going to stay as level as your floor does. (Put a pin in that......)
The really big problem might be with the top. If the top were made of lumber, as I "might" do anyhow, because it is "managable", if not solvable, the movement of the top of the bench would be your biggest issue, compared to the whole rest of the frame. If the top is made of plywood, if you bullzeye all the screws at the center of all the framing members you have pictured, you could screw, glue, and generally lock it down hard, and it won't bother. Plywood's expansion and contraction is minimal (often considered zero), and in practice is a pretty good match for the expansion lengthwise (with the grain) on the frame.

The legs of that stand, somewhere you said 4X4 lumber for that? That's hard (and by that I mean "expensive") to find that without a heart in it. It's probably gonna twist on you.... It probably won't matter to the leveling situation, and if it does, once it "goes", and you correct for it, it probably won't bother again. The biggist thing that really means in building a bench is "have a plan and get it done". A week or two versus months or longer. Once it's all screwed/glued/bolted together, it'll stay better, move less, and it'll all move together, which means as long as you don't have the metrology tools out, it'll be fine.


2.) Sealing is not really required. The wood will soak up oils and fluids and all for sure. It won't hurt it, except that you'll never be able to "clean it off" to look like new. And chips aren't so easy to brush off of it. I've got a wood (plywood) top on the "big" workbench at work, and also my "mechanic's cart" is made (well made.....) with common white pine boards. Both of those have been thorougly finished in carb cleaner and used oil finish over the years. They look greasy and oily, but just like wood with "proper" oil finishes, the boss can take his office job clean hands and move my cart around, or do things on the work bench. It doesn't track.

If you were to seal it, paint or otherwise, my strong recommendation would be to do all or nothing. Either way, it WILL acclimate to the ambient humidity, but if you seal it, you slow the process. If you slow some places, and not others, then you get differential movements.



For the sides and back, I'd highly agree with you that panels would do well. Just like the top, they could be anything, but I'd recommend plywood there as well. As fancy or as crude as you choose to be, it can be made to work well. Or "real wood" can work too, again, if you choose to take on the art of managing the seasonal changes. Mine won't be that, that part if mine is gonna be plywood.

With the back and sides done, instead of sandbags inside the bottom, I'd think the better approach would be a pair of hinged doors in the front, or drawers (built, bought, scavenged, whatever, and load it up with tools, materials, etc.



Don't get "too" excited about torsion boxes. The ones you see on youtube are increadible, however to accomplish that they are using a high amount of engineering, an increadible degree of accuracy in their cutting, and they're universally using materials that are 100 percent dimensionally consistant in three dimensions. To do the same with lumber, the way it was done before somebody gave it a name, and for a bench that's gonna be less than three feet deep... The way it was done is pretty much what you see in the drawing you posted. Good square cuts on all the pieces, cross members well attached, the top attached well to all of the framing and cross members.... You're pretty much there. You could get some (probably not tangible but absolutely real) gains from another layer on the underside off the top framing, but my thoughts are this- You'd get MORE benefit from taking that extra chunk of plywood and doubling the top . Screwed on a grid (for clamping mostly) and the two glued together, Stronger bolting for the lathe, solid enough to do work on, (you can HAMMER on a regular shop work bench built this way). Not that there's anything wrong with the torsion boxes anyone is building, it's just that unless you're doing something that is HUGE in size, or needs to be able to stand on three legs, good old run of the mill utility benches (well built) aren't that far from the mark.



How will you attach wooden end caps to the end grain? Door shims under a leg work very well..... Seriously, while I'm half way joking about the door shims, the end grain situation is hard to make go away. My solution is going to be shims (maybe or maybe not door shims, but shims nonetheless), as this is not something that needs to be done every day. And in practice, only access to the front legs are needed. It won't move enough to require such drastic adjustments at all. I'm not 100 percent sure, barring any changes in my master plan, this is not this summer's thing, but the following one. Plans could change. But I believe, I am going to leave ONE front leg about a quarter inch short, and use two tapered "somethings" to make one solid parallel adjustable shim. (Kind of like a door shim, but maybe a better material). The initial bench leveling can literally be done in place during construction, as close as it can reasonably be, and literally finished with a hand plane until my metrology department is exhausted, before the top is in place. Beyond that, level doesn't really bother me so much as "twist. That can be adjusted either way at that single point.

My solution for mobility is going to be based on constructing the lower "shelf" so that it can be accessed and lifted from two sides and one end with a pallet jack. Or more likely it'll be set up to properly "catch" a pallet truck from for all four sides, but I think center of mass issues might prevent lifting from one end. So I kind of sidestepped casters/endgrain issue. If I were confined to the bench being on it's own wheels, I'd probably be inclined, depending on how the final bench works out,to make the lower shelf framework coincide with the bottom of the legs, so that it could be available at three sides of the caster for support. That means the fourth hole (in the leg end grain), would only ever see pressure loads, the screw would be there on principal, but it'd never get "tested" in real use. But don't discount other ideas over that, it's not a new problem, and I'm sure there's a slew of ways, in various degrees of cleverness, expedience, expense, etc. That's just what comes to mind right off.

This is absolutely fantastic info, exactly why I posted here instead of just trying something and seeing how it turned out. I really hope you post your design and pictures of the build process when you get around to it, I will be very interested to see what you come up with.

I will need to reread and digest before I can respond, I just wanted to thank you immediately for this very thorough answer.

 

[ryanj1234]

The MOLO has plans for a wooden bench/stand for craftsman lathes as does the manual for my craftsman 12x36 model 101.28910.

View attachment 439611 Metal tanker desks work well and can often be had for free. Same goes for old oak desks, One plus for using a desk is the drawers. Even newer metal desks are probably more than strong enough for your lathe.

I've got a copy of the MOLO but have only leafed through it so far, didn't know this was in there

I'll be honest, I've kind of been looking forward to building a bench, seems like a fun project. I've considered just getting a tanker desk and calling it good, but where's the fun in that?

Would you mind sending me the search you are putting in Craigslist? I see some stuff if I search "tanker desk" in all for sale, just lots of other garbage in there.

 

[Aaron_W]

The bench drawing you linked to in the first post is almost exactly how I made the bench for my Rivett Lathe, minus any wheels. For the top I did a layer of plywood to hold the top together, with a sheet of 3/4" MDF on top to bolt the lathe down. I don't like MDF, but it is more stable than plywood since there is no grain. I made a sheet metal chip pan and backsplash to go on top of the MDF.

It isn't pretty, but it is solid.

Yeah, I was figuring I'd want something directly under the bolts to make sure they've got plenty to hold onto.

Although I've seen in other threads, at least for South Bends, that you should leave the tailstock bolts loose or not even have them. I guess to compensate for the wood shifting?

I'd be curious to hear the full explanation on that

I've seen several small lathes that recommend solidly bolting the head stock end down, but only securing the tail stock end loosely. Enough to keep it from moving freely, but loose enough that small movements of the retaining bolts won't shift the lathe.

 

[mickri]

I searched just for desks and put a $100 max on the search. Got around 400 hits. A lot of which were chairs and lights or small desks. On a lot of the old desks that would work the top was only 60" long. If your lathe would need a longer top than that you would have to make a longer top. Most of the weight on your lathe is at the headstock end. The tailstock end is pretty light. So you don't need a lot of structure at the tailstock.

I used a cadenza for the bench for my lathe for awhile. Paid less than $50 for the cadenza. I had to put blocks under the legs to get it high enough. And I used the top from my old bench that I screwed onto the cadenza. I really like to have drawers on my bench.



Here is my old bench. No drawers and it was a pain to get things off of the shelves. It had a frame made out of angle iron and steel legs from something. The top is 2" thick fir. I put a sheet plastic to cover the top. I had the plastic on hand. Sheet metal would be better. I did not make this bench. It came with the lathe.



My current house came with a substantial work bench with lots of support on the headstock end. So I put the lathe and my bench top on the top of the work bench. The cadenza fit under the work bench. I don't have a picture of my current bench. It is still a work in progress.

 

[ryanj1234]

My bench will be wood, not because I "have to", not because I "need to", not because it's "better", but because I enjoy such things, and it's what I want.

I feel you, as I said in another post, I'm looking forward to building this out of wood. Seems like a fun project and for my use case, I'm pretty sure it will be more than enough.

Glue, (again, done with care and strategy) in any joints that are going to be "tested" in normal use

I assume in the case of the drawing I posted, glue should be applied to the half lap joins between the 4x4 legs and the 2x4s that go lengthwise?

If you were to seal it, paint or otherwise, my strong recommendation would be to do all or nothing.

Good to know. I do like the look of a painted bench. If I was using high quality wood that all matched I might want to just stain it but I'm thinking here it might be good to just cover everything up

With the back and sides done, instead of sandbags inside the bottom, I'd think the better approach would be a pair of hinged doors in the front, or drawers

Interesting. I would really like to add drawers just as a matter of practicality, but it is something I have never actually made before. I've got some basic wood working skills but nothing to brag about. Time to learn?

What I had envisioned was dividing the bench into three equal sections, with a stack of drawers under the head stock, a stack under the tail stock, and maybe an open section in the middle. I can't find a picture of what I'm talking about, but I know I've seen it done.

How will you attach wooden end caps to the end grain?

A lot of my ideas here come from this guy, from his series about building a printnc (which I am also working on at the moment)

Basically, he just cuts some thin sections of wood to fit on the end and countersinks some spots for tee nuts
He ends up drilling them in, but I was thinking I would glue mine like @Ischgl99 did.

If I were confined to the bench being on it's own wheels, I'd probably be inclined, depending on how the final bench works out,to make the lower shelf framework coincide with the bottom of the legs

Good point, but wouldn't that mean the longitudinal 2x4 would only have a shoulder to mesh against on its top side? Or would the caster effectively form the bottom shoulder and be just as strong? Not sure if that makes sense, I may have to draw out what I'm saying.

As far the casters go, I'm not sure how permanent the current location for this bench is, so I'd like something that can move when needed but also provide a relatively sturdy and adjustable point of contact when the location is set. Maybe in the future I'll just remove the casters and shim, but I think my garage is way too small and way too full of stuff already to get a pallet jack too

 

[silence dogood]

My lathe is now on its third bench. Actually two, the first one was just something for my new toy. My second bench was okay but had flaws. If you use wood, forget going to Home Depot or Lowes. The wood is just too green and in time will twist or bend. The timber that I got came out of a torn down building. Also, people are literally throwing away old upright pianos that had been sitting in a garage or basement. The posts can make fantastic benches. If you can, mount your lathe on a strong back or beam. In my case, I manage to find a steel channel and placed that on top of the wood bench. If it was not for that, I would use a wood beam. When you bolt your lathe to the bench make the holes in the wood slightly oversize. My bolts were 7/16"dia., the holes in the wood were 1/2". Add strong bracing. You want it rigid. Last, before you mount the lathe and level it. Use that same level to level the bench. Do whatever it takes to get that bench flat and level. Then mount the lathe and level it. I did that to my lathe and found that a 3 thousand shim on the back side of the tailstock made it good. It was worth it; the lathe now can make heavier cuts and even sounds quieter.

 

[Jake M]

I assume in the case of the drawing I posted, glue should be applied to the half lap joins between the 4x4 legs and the 2x4s that go lengthwise?

Yeah, pretty much. Honestly, anywhere that you're NOT gluing to end grain. While it has "some" value, gluing to end grain in my opinion is a waste of glue.

Good to know. I do like the look of a painted bench. If I was using high quality wood that all matched I might want to just stain it but I'm thinking here it might be good to just cover everything up

I agree. Although in hindsight I could have been more clear, I wasn't really saying the "oil and carb clean" finish is ideal. Just that it's servicable, and won't damage the wood. It is NOT an attractive finish at all. Very practical, but not attractive. Paint will look much better. And paint won't stick well over a pre-existing hydraulic and cutting oil finish.

Interesting. I would really like to add drawers just as a matter of practicality, but it is something I have never actually made before. I've got some basic wood working skills but nothing to brag about. Time to learn?

Time to learn? Never ask that. It's always time to learn. Sometimes, even if you KNOW you're gonna fail. Then you can go in with enough sense of humor to laugh off the failure and objectively reflect on the journey. That's when you learn the most.

Don't close your mind though. Just an example, not saying it's your solution..... Last time I needed drawers under a workbench (it has a two door approach to the lower shelf), I went to Harbor Freight, because they had the US General 5 drawer service carts on sale at 200 bucks. I would have had half of that in drawer slides, and I couldn't have bought material for that. It wasn't laid out like what I would have built, but it had enough drawers of adequate size, and a "workable" configuration. I opened the box, put it together finger tight just for grins, to see what I was about to destroy. (which cost me ANOTHER two hundered bucks, because I liked the thing.....) Then I proceeded to take the "body" of the cart, cut away EVERYTHING that wasn't directly holding the drawers together, and I stuffed that under the bench. All you can see is the front, you can't see ANYWHERE that I cut it, and it works... I am NOT saying this is your answer, just keep your mind open. Making drawers is time consuming, fiddly with measurements, prone to "unplanned compensations" and "on the fly corrections" during the build process, and generally not something you just watch a video and go do... But, if you've got a sense of humor (and a bit of spare material just in case), it's also very rewarding when it finally comes together just the way you want it to. In this case, I wanted the drawers more than I wanted the journey. Opportunities sometimes come where you least expect them, especially when your mind is open.

What I had envisioned was dividing the bench into three equal sections, with a stack of drawers under the head stock, a stack under the tail stock, and maybe an open section in the middle. I can't find a picture of what I'm talking about, but I know I've seen it done.

I know the layout your're talking about. It kind of leans towards the tanker desk that several others have mentioned. Although (built or bought) a it is a very practical solution.

A lot of my ideas here come from this guy, from his series about building a printnc (which I am also working on at the moment)

It seems good at first, but I'm pretty sure he looses some creadibility over the paint color. Outside of that, he's making a fairly practical, and generally good looking bench. He's definitely overthinking those "T" nuts.

Basically, he just cuts some thin sections of wood to fit on the end and countersinks some spots for tee nuts
He ends up drilling them in, but I was thinking I would glue mine like @Ischgl99 did.

I still disagree with that because he's screwing quarter inch bolts into 12mm wood, which will obviously never work because in the end, he's STILL got nothing holding the casters/feet on besides screws into end grain. Glue won't go very far here, it doesn't take to end grain very well. (although to some small degree I'm sure it does). You might pull that off if you can size the casters so that the wheel's axle never moves outside of the "footprint" of the leg, so that gravity becomes your friend, but it'd still be for occasional, gentle moves. It could well be good enough, but I think it could be improved on as well. Of course I've done a lot of things that could have (and arguably should have) been done better, but have proven good enough. This one bugs me though. But maybe.... I still say it's a lateral move compared to just screwing the casters directly to the end grain.

Good point, but wouldn't that mean the longitudinal 2x4 would only have a shoulder to mesh against on its top side? Or would the caster effectively form the bottom shoulder and be just as strong? Not sure if that makes sense, I may have to draw out what I'm saying.

No, you'd loose that shoulder, and technically that is a compromise. In good wood, that would be a large, or at least tangible loss. In "stud grade" and soft woods, the compressibility of the wood means that even a "so tight you have to hammer it together" joint will have enough compressibility that the loss will be small. The shoulders are barely structural. They are structural, but barely. The big gain would come from the glue in that joint, effectively spreading the area that the force is applied on from a couple of small areas, to the entire largest face of that joint. So yes, a compromise, but in this case, not the biggest one you'll make before all is said and done. I wouldn't loose any sleep one way or the other. Unless you were doing solid oak or maple, or other good hardwood. But as I said (or alluded to) in the other post, for what you need versus what you can do, that would be very much overkill.

As far the casters go, I'm not sure how permanent the current location for this bench is, so I'd like something that can move when needed but also provide a relatively sturdy and adjustable point of contact when the location is set. Maybe in the future I'll just remove the casters and shim, but I think my garage is way too small and way too full of stuff already to get a pallet jack too

An occasional move while you sort out a shop layout is not what I'd call regular use. And once the feet are down, they're directly under the leg.... Will the leveling casters you linked to allow the axle to always be inside the footprint of the table leg? That would go a long way with or without the plywood blocks.

You might be right about the pallet jack. They do need some room to move, so you've got to have that. On the other hand, it's not "that" much room, and if there's something you can push the forks under to store it, the storage area isn't that big. I brought it up not to influence your design,, but just because it's my excuse to sidestep the whole caster on the bottom of the leg issue. Don't worry, it brings up it's own counter issues to make up for that elsewhere.

 

[Aaron_W]

Don't close your mind though. Just an example, not saying it's your solution..... Last time I needed drawers under a workbench (it has a two door approach to the lower shelf), I went to Harbor Freight, because they had the US General 5 drawer service carts on sale at 200 bucks. I would have had half of that in drawer slides, and I couldn't have bought material for that. It wasn't laid out like what I would have built, but it had enough drawers of adequate size, and a "workable" configuration. I opened the box, put it together finger tight just for grins, to see what I was about to destroy. (which cost me ANOTHER two hundered bucks, because I liked the thing.....) Then I proceeded to take the "body" of the cart, cut away EVERYTHING that wasn't directly holding the drawers together, and I stuffed that under the bench. All you can see is the front, you can't see ANYWHERE that I cut it, and it works... I am NOT saying this is your answer, just keep your mind open. Making drawers is time consuming, fiddly with measurements, prone to "unplanned compensations" and "on the fly corrections" during the build process, and generally not something you just watch a video and go do...

The latest bench I built I left large open spaces below with the idea I could build storage in later, whether just mounting a tool box as you mention, or building drawers and shelves.

Another fairly simple but handy option is just making shelves sized for individual organizer boxes like these.

Compartmented organizers