AR15build - Do people only machine the lowers and sub the rest?

[pestilence]

There's a great thread on weapons guild that shows the process of machining an m1 garand casting. Fascinating stuff, but well beyond my current capabilities. Of course you have to have it heat treated too...

 

[mtnlvr]

Sharon, I think most people that machine their own lowers do it for the novelty. I'm sure some want an untraceable firearm but most want the experience.
I have a couple of 0% castings that one day I'll machine, just for the experience. After buying the tap for the buffer tube, some of the extended bits, building the fixture plates, etc. I can defiantly buy them cheaper. I believe ATF still doesn't require a ser. number on them but does recommend some sort of id number incase its stolen. Also, you can't build it with the intent to sell. That doesn't mean you can never sell it in the future. If you need to record the build date you can always photograph it then mail it to yourself certified mail(so it has an official date) and leave the envelope unopened. That way
you have proof of build date if years down the road you decide to sell.

 

[leadunderpressure]

The other benefit to doing it yourself is to be able to build for another caliber with another
magazine type.

Maybe you'd like a 9mm AR using cheap sten mags.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[RGR]

Last I knew the law allowed ONE gun to be built sans a number, or manufacturing license license which is different Than an FFL.

Just because fuzzy bobs machine shop down the street is doing them by the numbers, ask them if they will do your crossbar time when the Feds knock on your door.

The ATF has never ever had a sense of justice, nor a sense of humor, nor honor when it comes to dealing with any one they consider a bad guy.

A person MIGHT get away with making a couple of single shot falling block rifles, but they might not get away with a couple of semi auto weapon. Cripes guys, they have come down heavy for the excise tax, simply on shops doing a lot of rebarrel work.

Innocence is not presumed, one goes bankrupt proving such these days, especially in any alleged or imagined gun violation.

The very term "machining a lower" has serval different connotations. Even reading this, some guys are talking about making a couple of holes , some are talking about using a chunk of alloy looking something like a receiver.

No way are very many guys starting with only a raw piece. he factories certainly but not many guys with a small shop in their garage, like most of us here.

I am certain a few are, but the original question seemed to be about the notion of cost differences. It would certainly not pencil out to buy all the tooling to make even several, even if it was legal, which it's not.


If a guy just wants the challenge though and has a deep check book? Nothing wrong with that.)

 

[pestilence]

Last I knew the law allowed ONE gun to be built sans a number, or manufacturing license license which is different Than an FFL.

Just because fuzzy bobs machine shop down the street is doing them by the numbers, ask them if they will do your crossbar time when the Feds knock on your door.

The ATF has never ever had a sense of justice, nor a sense of humor, nor honor when it comes to dealing with any one they consider a bad guy.

A person MIGHT get away with making a couple of single shot falling block rifles, but they might not get away with a couple of semi auto weapon. Cripes guys, they have come down heavy for the excise tax, simply on shops doing a lot of rebarrel work.

Innocence is not presumed, one goes bankrupt proving such these days, especially in any alleged or imagined gun violation.

The very term "machining a lower" has serval different connotations. Even reading this, some guys are talking about making a couple of holes , some are talking about using a chunk of alloy looking something like a receiver.

No way are very many guys starting with only a raw piece. he factories certainly but not many guys with a small shop in their garage, like most of us here.

I am certain a few are, but the original question seemed to be about the notion of cost differences. It would certainly not pencil out to buy all the tooling to make even several, even if it was legal, which it's not.


If a guy just wants the challenge though and has a deep check book? Nothing wrong with that.)

Sorry, but you're dead wrong.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html#commercial-parts-assembly

 

[Blackhawk]

Purplev,

the folks I know want to make a lower because they are nervous about the government taking their guns. If you buy over the counter they know where you live. I'm 48 and I don't think it will happen in my lifetime. Who knows.

I'm not really into guns so for me this is a hobby.

check out this blog, looks lika a very talented guy. He does the upper, lower, barrel from a blank. Also shows how to make a floating pilot reamer holder. http://firearmsdesigner.com/?p=564 look at green mountain barrel if you want a blank, I bought five blanks from them.

Google frankengun hand guard, two examples and looks easy.

 

[SEK_22Hornet]

The magic number on the lower seems to be 80%. There are several outfits out there selling either CNC machined billet lowers that still need the "fire control group" milled out. Seemd to be a very consistent format. Some use forgings to start with, others a raw blank of T-6061 or T-7075- Most are more expensive that a complete lower, and there are even injection molded 80% lowers. I'm sure this is exploiting a loophole in the definition of what constitutes a complete ar-15 lower. Te 80% lowers usually offer a fixture to allow the receiver to be hogged out on a drill press - the plastic ones say you can use a Dremel tool. I'd love to give one try but since I have so many guns all ready, I have no reason not to just buy one from an FFL dealer for less money, other than just wanting to do one. I have assembled two uppers - kind of a let down, really - probably took me all of 20 minutes each. I will assemble a lower some of these days, assuming they stay legal. there is a bill in the House right now to ban lower kits, but so far only 6 Democrats have signed on to it. One exception to the higher cost is Rockethub - a group funding website - I saw one group selling 80% lowers with the jig for a $25 donation, but I was too late to get in on that deal (my usual luck). Of course those guys are still waiting to see anything for the money they have paid (delivery was expected in June). I suspect the ATF will eventually crack down on the 80% lower, and when they do, it will probably get harder to build any gun from scratch legally.

 

[Old Iron]

I'm going to post a link to some info on building from a blank lower forging and before anyone gets hyper about it read this.

Ray-Vin Publishing Co. 5405 Hilltop Ave Panama City Beach, FL 32408
Raymond V Brandes 5405 Hilltop Ave Panama City Beach, FL 32408 ray.brandes@gmail.com 850-209-5846 (c)
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]June 28, 2013
To whom it may concern;
I grant permission to reproduce my book, "Machining the AR Lower Receiver Forging" , all or part. The book my be reproduced in print or electronic media.
Raymond V Brandes

http://arlower.ray-vin.com/ar15/

Paul
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[RGR]

Sorry, but you're dead wrong.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html#commercial-parts-assembly

I do not believe so.) But simply was not clear. A guy can buy serialized recs and parts, and build guns all day long, as one presumes the factory that made the reciever has records on which FFL or distributor ended up with said receiver, whether it be an AR, or a Sako which used to be built into both rifles and IHSMA pistols. But they had factory serial numbers on them.

A person could of course make every other part from raw steel if they wished, the Feds only lose sleep over the serialized action.

One also runs into Pittman Robertson excise tax issues by "manufacturing" complete guns in quantity. One famed case though decades old at present was that guy that made high end flintlock rifles the Feds came after. The have been others more recent, of custom shops again being accused of manufacturing rather than simply "customizing"' and all they did was buy serialized actions, and make specialized target or hunting weapons.

What I meant limited to "one a year" was the person starting with a block of steel, and making a firearm that uses cartridge type ammo, and then selling them for profit, which of course begs the question, of who sells for less than it cost them?)

I was perhaps not clear, but unless they have changed the law, one cannot willy billy, make actions at home, in qty, and as I recall, even for personal use would be arguable, depending on the agent asked.

Its much like simply defining who needs an FFL, pretty much everyone needs an FFL if they claim the guy needs one. Some guys sell a hundred guns a year and don't have one, some sell 10, and are told to get one.

 

[pestilence]

I do not believe so.) But simply was not clear. A guy can buy serialized recs and parts, and build guns all day long, as one presumes the factory that made the reciever has records on which FFL or distributor ended up with said receiver, whether it be an AR, or a Sako which used to be built into both rifles and IHSMA pistols. But they had factory serial numbers on them.

A person could of course make every other part from raw steel if they wished, the Feds only lose sleep over the serialized action.

One also runs into Pittman Robertson excise tax issues by "manufacturing" complete guns in quantity. One famed case though decades old at present was that guy that made high end flintlock rifles the Feds came after. The have been others more recent, of custom shops again being accused of manufacturing rather than simply "customizing"' and all they did was buy serialized actions, and make specialized target or hunting weapons.

What I meant limited to "one a year" was the person starting with a block of steel, and making a firearm that uses cartridge type ammo, and then selling them for profit, which of course begs the question, of who sells for less than it cost them?)

I was perhaps not clear, but unless they have changed the law, one cannot willy billy, make actions at home, in qty, and as I recall, even for personal use would be arguable, depending on the agent asked.

Its much like simply defining who needs an FFL, pretty much everyone needs an FFL if they claim the guy needs one. Some guys sell a hundred guns a year and don't have one, some sell 10, and are told to get one.

Nobody is talking about making and selling guns. You stated that one cannot make more than one receiver per year for personal use. That is incorrect. There are no restrictions as long as you are not making with the intent to sell.