Adequate Hobbyist Drill Press?

[rwdenney]

Now you know why some guys with Real DPs or other metal working machines find it hard to bite their tongue when someone asks if a DP with minimum 400 rpm will suffice for "hobby" machining.
But now you're gonna learn there is a downside to owning a heavy machine like yours.
I see you are holding that big drill bit in a chuck.
After you twist the straight shank off of a couple of drill bits you will start buying taper shank bits. And there's no end to that.

All machine tools should be selected to fulfill requirements driven by the things the person actually intends to do with them.

For me, a drill press is a convenience tool. Its purpose is to make it fairly easy and quick to drill the usual holes for clearance and threaded holes for the sorts of fabrications that people like us (hobbyists) actually make. For me, that would only very rarely exceed holes for half-inch bolts and screws.

Precision holes, holes that are precision openings for things like bearing mounts or alignment pins, and holes for constructions so massive a half-inch bolt isn’t enough need a whole different solution. No drill press can locate a hole with real precision. With scribe lines and an optical locator punch one might get within, say, 5 thou. Good technique on a decent drill press can achieve that.

For holes much smaller than about 1/8”, one also needs a different solution. The requirements for that can’t be fulfilled by a standard drill press. But they also can’t be fulfilled by drilling machines like the Arboga.

So, we have four use cases leading to very different requirements:

1. Holes in steel and iron for bolts larger than 1/2”. Requirements include high power, massive rigidity, and RPM down to 2 digits. It may also need power feed and taper-shank drills (or collets).

2. Holes in metals that need location precision better than, say, 0.005”. My Jacobs chuck only claims precision to 0.004, so a requirement for this use case will be drills held in collets.

3. Holes smaller than 1/8”. These require precision to avoid breaking drills as much as anything. It will need speeds into the five digits with the smallest drills, though speeds into the middle four digits will usually work.

4. Holes for bolted or screwed connections using fasteners from, say, #8 through 1-2”. This is the vast majority of what most home fabricators do. A 9/16” drill needs speeds at least down into the 200’s for mild steel.

In a production shop, the first use case might be a reason to own a specialized high-power, low-speed drilling machine. For me, the preferred alternative would be a mill, which also fulfills those requirements but which earns its real estate in a home shop with a lot more versatility. The very occasional need for this use case can be accommodated by a quality drill press with slower speeds and careful technique. A magnetic drill press with annular cutters might also cover some tasks in this use case.

The second use case is best served by a mill with a precision table.

The third use case can be addressed by a mill, but a production shop may find real value in a specialized sensitive drill press. A collet-mounted sensitive drill attachment might also work well in a larger mill.

The fourth use case is what drill presses were made for. But the old American-made presses need their slow-down kits, or their wide speed range plus a slow motor, to fully address requirements here. My Delta 15” press with an 1140-RPM motor will get down well under 300 RPM, and has about the same range as a three-pulley press. It’s not stiff enough for really big holes, or precise enough for drills smaller than 1/16” (there being no collet option). But it’s fine for the vast majority of the holes I need for bolted connections in home-shop fabrications.

The Arboga that the OP found is awesome and if I’d found the right deal in one locally I might have gone for it, too. It will certainly fulfill the requirements of that fourth use case. But what I really need for those other three use cases is a mill, and a drill press is not that. A specialized drilling machine eats into mill money and shop real estate for me, but without doing the many other things a mill will do. A drill press has to be convenience-priced.

Rick “aiming at the original question” Denney

 

[verbotenwhisky]

All machine tools should be selected to fulfill requirements driven by the things the person actually intends to do with them.

For me, a drill press is a convenience tool. Its purpose is to make it fairly easy and quick to drill the usual holes for clearance and threaded holes for the sorts of fabrications that people like us (hobbyists) actually make. For me, that would only very rarely exceed holes for half-inch bolts and screws.

Precision holes, holes that are precision openings for things like bearing mounts or alignment pins, and holes for constructions so massive a half-inch bolt isn’t enough need a whole different solution. No drill press can locate a hole with real precision. With scribe lines and an optical locator punch one might get within, say, 5 thou. Good technique on a decent drill press can achieve that.

For holes much smaller than about 1/8”, one also needs a different solution. The requirements for that can’t be fulfilled by a standard drill press. But they also can’t be fulfilled by drilling machines like the Arboga.

So, we have four use cases leading to very different requirements:

1. Holes in steel and iron for bolts larger than 1/2”. Requirements include high power, massive rigidity, and RPM down to 2 digits. It may also need power feed and taper-shank drills (or collets).

2. Holes in metals that need location precision better than, say, 0.005”. My Jacobs chuck only claims precision to 0.004, so a requirement for this use case will be drills held in collets.

3. Holes smaller than 1/8”. These require precision to avoid breaking drills as much as anything. It will need speeds into the five digits with the smallest drills, though speeds into the middle four digits will usually work.

4. Holes for bolted or screwed connections using fasteners from, say, #8 through 1-2”. This is the vast majority of what most home fabricators do. A 9/16” drill needs speeds at least down into the 200’s for mild steel.

In a production shop, the first use case might be a reason to own a specialized high-power, low-speed drilling machine. For me, the preferred alternative would be a mill, which also fulfills those requirements but which earns its real estate in a home shop with a lot more versatility. The very occasional need for this use case can be accommodated by a quality drill press with slower speeds and careful technique. A magnetic drill press with annular cutters might also cover some tasks in this use case.

The second use case is best served by a mill with a precision table.

The third use case can be addressed by a mill, but a production shop may find real value in a specialized sensitive drill press. A collet-mounted sensitive drill attachment might also work well in a larger mill.

The fourth use case is what drill presses were made for. But the old American-made presses need their slow-down kits, or their wide speed range plus a slow motor, to fully address requirements here. My Delta 15” press with an 1140-RPM motor will get down well under 300 RPM, and has about the same range as a three-pulley press. It’s not stiff enough for really big holes, or precise enough for drills smaller than 1/16” (there being no collet option). But it’s fine for the vast majority of the holes I need for bolted connections in home-shop fabrications.

The Arboga that the OP found is awesome and if I’d found the right deal in one locally I might have gone for it, too. It will certainly fulfill the requirements of that fourth use case. But what I really need for those other three use cases is a mill, and a drill press is not that. A specialized drilling machine eats into mill money and shop real estate for me, but without doing the many other things a mill will do. A drill press has to be convenience-priced.

Rick “aiming at the original question” Denney

LOL, Yeah

 

[pontiac428]

All machine tools should be selected to fulfill requirements driven by the things the person actually intends to do with them.

Does the same rule apply to guys buying Jeeps and pickup trucks?

 

[455dan]

Now you know why some guys with Real DPs or other metal working machines find it hard to bite their tongue when someone asks if a DP with minimum 400 rpm will suffice for "hobby" machining.
But now you're gonna learn there is a downside to owning a heavy machine like yours.
I see you are holding that big drill bit in a chuck.
After you twist the straight shank off of a couple of drill bits you will start buying taper shank bits. And there's no end to that.

I don't doubt it on snapping 1/2 cut down shank bits, and 'wanting' some larger taper bits.
I did know about trying to stay down slow on the rotational speeds though, on steel with larger bits, since I actually had to modify my bench top 5 speed press years ago from the 1/3 HP motor to an extra pulley and 2 speed Hot tub pump motor to drive it much slower and with a bunch more hp/ torque so it would actually drill with larger diameter bits without overheating the bit. That modified little press gets credit, it has drilled a whole lot of good sized holes in steel.

Figure the new press should have a full set of taper sleeves since this is an MT4 ordered an MT 3 to Weldon adaptor- thinking it will be nice to able to use the MAG drills annular cutters with the Arboga. They do make a real nice hole if the thickness isn't to deep.

Dialed in the VFD parameters for top speed, ramp up, and coast to stop as well. I never knew how slick the VFD's could be to work with , at least for the basic settings.
There are some settings that have me scratching my head.

As for the need for other machines, I get that.

Kind of afraid this could become an addiction


A Good point was made though, this older industrial equipment can be price comparable to buying New from HF (like what I was trying to do). I would have had to try to Go with the 3rd option, which would be the 20" HF drill for $700. It 'might' have a much thicker column than the smaller models and be a much more solid unit. As 428 Pontiac said some leg work and quality time fixing and cleaning up equipment can be rewarding.
The run out with the Shars chuck and reset tapered roller bearing is less than 1/2 of where the New HF spindle and supplied chuck were.

This penned out really well versus the largest 20" HF. It was more expensive than the medium sized HF floor press, but know every time drilling a large hole in steel with that press and it's flexible .060" thick column I would be irritated,

Every, Single, Time.

I do think the other SKU HF sells may be fine and all cast iron with a thicker column like the older HF drill presses this size used to come with.


Following recommendations by Helpful members here ( your advice was Very helpful) on Hobby Machinist, I ended up with more than double the weight, a 5 1/2" column that is ~1/2" thick and has a center stiffening spine cast in.
Adjustable height/swingable head and table, 2 motor speeds, a 1 1/4 - 2 HP and with VFD ~50 through ~1500 RPM, 2 speed power down feed ( (fixed the pin that had in fact fallen out and got the second speed back) 24" swing over HF's 20"
Geared head speed changes and no slipping belts.

Total cost into the Arboga

$500 E 300
$135 18 amp VFD
$15 cleaning supplies
$25 diesel for trip to get press
$70 Shars 5/8" Chuck

$745 ball park total,

So comparable to a new regular price 20" HF @ $699 + tax.

You do get a 90 day warranty a nice new press, and save on a a lot of cleaning / rust removal and repaint time, which brings me to this picture after doing some paint removal.

That missing fourth bolt was There the entire time... completely hidden by the slathered on paint. DOH...

Could have saved a good part of a day, had I just started removing paint.

 

[rwdenney]

Of course, it is possible to get a decent conventional drill press that is vastly better than the HF cheapie with a column of 1/16” thickness, as you point out. The standard Delta drill press from back when Rockwell made them had a column thickness of 5/32”, 2-1/2 times thicker. No, it’s not rigid enough to drill 1” holes in steel, but that would be asking a cat to do a dog’s job. The point of my post is that either choice is not “better”, but rather “more appropriate” for the things one will actually do.

The Arboga is nice in that its form factor seems little larger than a standard drill press. I considered an (old) industrial drilling machine that I could actually drive to where I live, but it required four times the floor space and I would have had to run a separate circuit in the shop to run it. It used a 2” flat belt from a floor-level motor. High power, yes. Slow speeds, check. But in the space I’d have had to make for it, I’d rather put a real mill, which can drill all the same holes but which can do many other things, too.

And how long ago was the last time I drilled a 1” hole or needed 20” of swing for any part I could actually place on a drill press table? It’s been decades.

I’ve needed large holes in bearing-press adapters, but that’s what the lathe is for. And I’ve needed them in structural steel that was part of a structure, but that’s what mag drills are for. No moving a 12” wide flange beam 20 feet long to the press, however capable. And I’ve occasionally needed a bored opening even larger than that, but that’s what mills are for, and I had to get someone else to make it. For every one of those, I’ve needed a thousand 9/16” clearance holes for a half-inch bolt, and ten thousand 7-16” clearance holes for a 3/8” bolt. (And nearly as many 1/8” holes in steel.)

You were fortunate to find the Arboga, but that’s not an option for most. The nearest one to me is being offered for $1500 and is 500 miles away. The nearest geared-head press of similar type was a Jet selling for $1650 and it is also 500 miles away. Had one of either been close and the same price as a used belt-drive drill press of good quality, I’d have probably jumped on it, too.

Have you tried drilling a 1/8” hole in steel yet? I’m really curious as to how the Arboga would do for that.

Rick “answering the original question for others who might have the same question” Denney

 

[rwdenney]

Does the same rule apply to guys buying Jeeps and pickup trucks?

Heh. Wait til the first time a guy tries to pull into a parking garage with his “gear-head, power-driven” four-door, long-bed F350 with the high-clearance off-road suspension and tires. The 7-foot clearance bar will be about eye-height. He’ll then go out and buy a “sensitive” sedan with a precision Albrecht chuck for driving in town.

But when I was winching my jeep over the Rock Pile while driving down Pritchett Canyon Road near Moab I was sure glad it was a Jeep and not an F350 that is 23 feet long.

We either learn our requirements before purchase or after, but only when doing the things we really do, not the things we imagine we do.

But, hey, it’s a hobby.

Rick “needs a mill” Denney

 

[verbotenwhisky]

Heh. Wait til the first time a guy tries to pull into a parking garage with his “gear-head, power-driven” four-door, long-bed F350 with the high-clearance off-road suspension and tires. The 7-foot clearance bar will be about eye-height. He’ll then go out and buy a “sensitive” sedan with a precision Albrecht chuck for driving in town.

But when I was winching my jeep over the Rock Pile while driving down Pritchett Canyon Road near Moab I was sure glad it was a Jeep and not an F350 that is 23 feet long.

We either learn our requirements before purchase or after, but only when doing the things we really do, not the things we imagine we do.

But, hey, it’s a hobby.

Rick “needs a mill” Denney

Come to Texas, a 4Door Crew Cab Long Wheel Base 4 wheel drive 4500 is the family grocery getter here

 

[projectnut]

Come to Texas, a 4Door Crew Cab Long Wheel Base 4 wheel drive 4500 is the family grocery getter here

Your 4 Door Crew Cab Long Wheelbase 4-wheel drive 4500 may work fine in some situations, but it might also have problems in others. Here's a video of someone on the Black Bear pass near Telluride Colorado. Note at about the 11-minute point the bend in the trail is so short that a Jeep TJ has to backup to make the corner. Keep in mind the TJ is only 155.4" long. There's a section just before the bend called "the steps". It was originally carved into the rocks for the mules to pack supplies up to the mines. The trail is now a one-way going down the steps. I'm not sure how most vehicles would do trying to climb them.

The last time we went there was a Jeep TJ in front of us with a roof rack full of equipment including several jerry cans. When going down one of the steps the Jeep leaned so far to the left, I thought they were going to tip into the canyon. They were able to recover, but barely. When they reached the sharp bend, a woman got out of the passenger's side door and walked the rest of the way to the bottom.

Here's another one that might cause a little pucker factor trying it in your Texas grocery getter. This is Hells Revenge by Moab. When we went there for the first time in the 1980's they had a 4' high pile of rubble at what's now the paved entrance. No stock suspension vehicles were allowed on the trail, and those with modified suspension had to be able to easily navigate over the rubble pile to be allowed on the trail.

 

[455dan]

Of course, it is possible to get a decent conventional drill press that is vastly better than the HF cheapie with a column of 1/16” thickness, as you point out. The standard Delta drill press from back when Rockwell made them had a column thickness of 5/32”, 2-1/2 times thicker. No, it’s not rigid enough to drill 1” holes in steel, but that would be asking a cat to do a dog’s job. The point of my post is that either choice is not “better”, but rather “more appropriate” for the things one will actually do.

The Arboga is nice in that its form factor seems little larger than a standard drill press. I considered an (old) industrial drilling machine that I could actually drive to where I live, but it required four times the floor space and I would have had to run a separate circuit in the shop to run it. It used a 2” flat belt from a floor-level motor. High power, yes. Slow speeds, check. But in the space I’d have had to make for it, I’d rather put a real mill, which can drill all the same holes but which can do many other things, too.

And how long ago was the last time I drilled a 1” hole or needed 20” of swing for any part I could actually place on a drill press table? It’s been decades.

I’ve needed large holes in bearing-press adapters, but that’s what the lathe is for. And I’ve needed them in structural steel that was part of a structure, but that’s what mag drills are for. No moving a 12” wide flange beam 20 feet long to the press, however capable. And I’ve occasionally needed a bored opening even larger than that, but that’s what mills are for, and I had to get someone else to make it. For every one of those, I’ve needed a thousand 9/16” clearance holes for a half-inch bolt, and ten thousand 7-16” clearance holes for a 3/8” bolt. (And nearly as many 1/8” holes in steel.)

You were fortunate to find the Arboga, but that’s not an option for most. The nearest one to me is being offered for $1500 and is 500 miles away. The nearest geared-head press of similar type was a Jet selling for $1650 and it is also 500 miles away. Had one of either been close and the same price as a used belt-drive drill press of good quality, I’d have probably jumped on it, too.

Have you tried drilling a 1/8” hole in steel yet? I’m really curious as to how the Arboga would do for that.

Rick “answering the original question for others who might have the same question” Denney

I did try a .070 bit on the 3/8 steel with the power down feed. First time it came loose in the new chuck and I tightened it down and reversed the feed and it came out intact. Second time in the chuck tight, it made it about 1/2 way through and snapped off. This was a bit out of the $9 on sale set that HF sells. I have some older quality HSS American bits and some newer Cobalt bits that are sharp, I should try manually feeding and if they survive that , then try the power down feed.

Rick I agree with you actually. On a mill, almost any Mill. The first piece of machining equipment I bought other than valve and seat grinders was the HF 40939 1/2 Knee Mill. Then a 7' x 10" HF mini lathe , then a 12 x 24 gear head lathe. The little drill press and manual table lift was getting old manually reefing the table into position.

Around here It is generally a desert as far as finding used Bridgeports for reasonable money. The last one at auction was about $3200 with tax and fees.
Yep, I think you need a Mill. I plan to modify my HF with an 8" head vertical extension. I can't even use my dividing head turned vertical on the table because there just isn't enough space to use tooling as is. Something this Arboga may be able to do. I will be drilling some larger holes in steel with this press for tractor 3point FEL and implement mods. I have a new 12" trenching bucket that needs modified to fit the Ford / New Holland backhoe mounts, linkage, a 3 point snow blower that needs brackets made to allow the blower to drop down lower and it is a Cat 2 that weighs 1275lb, also putting together a hydraulic thumb for the backhoe. None of the pins are under 7/8" Granted much of this can be done with a MAG drill but likely not all of it.

Had this Arboga been located in a larger city like Spokane it probably would have sold in a couple days, but since it was over an hours drive away in a very small mining town, the seller only had a few calls and I was the only one to show up with money in hand. That press was listed for almost 2 weeks. I thought the pic of it looked like it was cracked at the head and MIG welded and it was actually just a chain hanging, maybe others thought the same. Also I really did not know that this was a real Good quality press, until that was pointed out by a couple members here, which I am thankful for.

As far as Adequate I am wondering how the actual OP's new WEN benchtop is working out for his uses,- as you said it depends on what your actual projects are.


ps. a Jeep grocery getter project I built and painted from my Jeeping days. Pontiac 455 punched out to 462 Cubic inch T 400, Dana 20, tilt Power steering and Buick Grand Sport floor shift. It was quick in a drag race against most muscle cars.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

Your 4 Door Crew Cab Long Wheelbase 4-wheel drive 4500 may work fine in some situations, but it might also have problems in others. Here's a video of someone on the Black Bear pass near Telluride Colorado. Note at about the 11-minute point the bend in the trail is so short that a Jeep TJ has to backup to make the corner. Keep in mind the TJ is only 155.4" long. There's a section just before the bend called "the steps". It was originally carved into the rocks for the mules to pack supplies up to the mines. The trail is now a one-way going down the steps. I'm not sure how most vehicles would do trying to climb them.

The last time we went there was a Jeep TJ in front of us with a roof rack full of equipment including several jerry cans. When going down one of the steps the Jeep leaned so far to the left, I thought they were going to tip into the canyon. They were able to recover, but barely. When they reached the sharp bend, a woman got out of the passenger's side door and walked the rest of the way to the bottom.

Here's another one that might cause a little pucker factor trying it in your Texas grocery getter. This is Hells Revenge by Moab. When we went there for the first time in the 1980's they had a 4' high pile of rubble at what's now the paved entrance. No stock suspension vehicles were allowed on the trail, and those with modified suspension had to be able to easily navigate over the rubble pile to be allowed on the trail.

Grocery getters stay on the road....