Welder looking to buy a mill/drill for home use

[Eddyde]

What's the length and width of the plates you need to surface?

 

[C-Bag]

What's the length and width of the plates you need to surface?

I was curious about that too.

 

[matthewsx]

Hello everyone!

I'm a new member here on this forum. I own my own fabrication business and recently my cheap drill press died. For a few years now I've been watching videos/reading about many of the different mill/drills on the market from PM, Grizzly, LMS, and Weiss. My main focus will be drilling thick carbon steels and surfacing fixture plates that I use for my turbo manifolds. Now I have 220 in my garage but both outlets are in use, so I'd like to buy the most capable machine using 110v. I have sought out advice from a machinist trainer friend I know, and he can't give me a clear answer.

I've seen videos on all the machines for sale listed above from 1hp-2hp etc. I simply cannot decide on which is the best option. Before anyone wastes their time and says just buy a bridgeport, I'm not. They're too big, bulky, and I need 110v. Weiss just released their new EM line of machines that look nice but none of them are stateside which makes me nervous buying from a chinese company direct.

Any solid advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you

I'm not seeing the EM machines on the Weiss website, can you point us to what you're looking at? That'll give an idea of size and budget you're shooting for.

John

 

[steamingspud]

My $.02 adjusted for inflation: get that 3/4 Bridgeport used like John said. I got one for $1500 with lots of tooling and fixtures, and that was expensive. I still use it regardless of having a Robodrill; good for small. quick work.

If you have room, get a real Bridgeport, especially if you make money with it. If you’re not using the mill and the welder at the same time, just put in another 220 outlet.

 

[coolidge]

This should drive your decision making imo, "surfacing fixture plates" in terms of mill size, rigidity and HP. They do rate these mills in terms of maximum size face mills they can run. It would be relatively easy to add additional 220 outlets to your two existing circuits. As easy as fabricating a cord with a 2 outlet box on one end.

Whichever way you go AVOID round column mill/drills. You want to be able to adjust Z height during a job, or during tool changes of different length tools that require adjusting Z height without losing X and Y position as you would with a round column.

Example: I typically begin by setting my X and Y DRO zero positions with a Haas probe. The tool is relatively inexpensive around $57 and a big time saver. But it's rather large and long. If I'm going from that to say an end mill or stub drill bit I'll have to lower the Z height without losing the X and Y zero I just set.

 

[SouthernChap]

Whichever way you go AVOID round column mill/drills. You want to be able to adjust Z height during a job, or during tool changes of different length tools that require adjusting Z height without losing X and Y position as you would with a round column.

People manage the problem with losing X and Y position when changing z height by using a machine zero (usually a reference dimple on the table), the longest tool technique and thinking about order of operations before they start a job or by removing the problem by preventing the head from rotating via various mechanisms, details of which abound on the internet.

Losing X and Y on raising or lowering the head is a problem that is wildly over-stated and the fact that buying a used RF30/31 gets the buyer a machine that is a fair bit more sturdy than any square column machine that they could have got for the same money is often under-stated

If the OP doesn't want a BP, then a used RF30/31 sounds like a good plan.

 

[matthewsx]

Whichever way you go AVOID round column mill/drills. You want to be able to adjust Z height during a job, or during tool changes of different length tools that require adjusting Z height without losing X and Y position as you would with a round column.

You will get this a lot from folks and there is a real concern for folks who are doing serious machine work. However, there are quite a few talented machinists who have good workarounds for the limitation of having a round column mill. That said, if you're not doing multi-tool setups you'll never have the problems associated with round columns to my knowledge.

@SouthernChap beat me to it, but, the reasons I suggested the RF30 is based on your requirement of drilling big holes in steel. Facing fixtures, assuming that's not an every day event can also be done without too much drama providing these aren't giant pieces that should be done on a large machine.

Also, even though I can walk you through extending your 220v you were clear that you wanted the mill to run on 110v.

I don't know what Weiss is offering in their EM line but I did notice they're still selling an RF30 clone, pretty sure it's much more machine for the money than any of their square column offerings.

John

 

[coolidge]

You will get this a lot from folks and there is a real concern for folks who are doing serious machine work. However, there are quite a few talented machinists who have good workarounds for the limitation of having a round column mill. That said, if you're not doing multi-tool setups you'll never have the problems associated with round columns to my knowledge.

@SouthernChap beat me to it, but, the reasons I suggested the RF30 is based on your requirement of drilling big holes in steel. Facing fixtures, assuming that's not an every day event can also be done without too much drama providing these aren't giant pieces that should be done on a large machine.

Also, even though I can walk you through extending your 220v you were clear that you wanted the mill to run on 110v.

I don't know what Weiss is offering in their EM line but I did notice they're still selling an RF30 clone, pretty sure it's much more machine for the money than any of their square column offerings.

John

I stick by my recommendation to avoid round columns because, "I own my own fabrication business" is part of the equation.

 

[matthewsx]

I stick by my recommendation to avoid round columns because, "I own my own fabrication business" is part of the equation.

Okay, OP said he's not buying a Bridgeport.

We all know he may get there eventually but when people are explicit about what they want then I do try to give my best advice. I've owned an RF30 and the 3/4 Bridgeport clone. Never owned a mini mill but for drilling big holes in steel I know which one I'd rather use given the no Bridgeport limitation.

There's a wide range of businesses that can be called "fabrication", everything from farm trailers to NASA contractors. An RF45 as suggested above would be a good choice, but not getting to his door with tooling under $5k new. In my day job I spec and maintain machines, I'd have a hard time justifying features that aren't needed at the time just because I might want them someday.

As a former business owner I'm all to familiar with trying to balance wants and "needs". I waited quite a while before I found the used RF30, and as often happens, just as soon as I got it setup the Samson popped up locally. Had to have it since my lathe is also branded Samson; and as a hobbyist now, I want to keep as many options open as I can. Also, the price was good and he was willing to wait until I could get it moved out of his shop. It also requires 3 phase 240v which I provide with a 240v single phase static converter.

Now, If I was running a business, and my drill press that I depend on just cr@pped out, with orders piling up I wouldn't have time to wait around for a good deal on the ideal used machine. The OP might weigh his options and decide it's worth stretching the budget so he doesn't have to worry about loosing registration when he changes tool height. But, if that's not a requirement, then why spend the extra money? Capital is hard to come by and it might be better used somewhere else that provides a quicker return.

That's why I made my recommendation and I'm sticking to it. Hopefully this back and forth will be helpful for the OP, or whomever reads it in the future.

John

 

[matthewsx]

@Teglove2 Post up some pictures of your turbo manifolds, some of us are gearheads and love that kind of stuff.

John