Sometimes it doesn't pay to try to select "just the right buyer" for your favourite machines

[TorontoBuilder]

So when I posted our lathe for sale I had a specific strategy to assure that we'd sell the lathe quickly and thereby assure that we had the space clear for a new lathe my brother will be purchasing shortly.

Brother is adamant that the lathe must be gone before new one arrives (his GF would kill him otherwise), but there is tension between us because he'd sell well below the value of the lathe based on my tracking of lathe sales in the region over the past 12 month period. In reality there has only been one variable speed lathe sale in this size in the past 4 months and it sold for significantly over $4k

I am a joint owner of the lathe and I don't need or even want to sell it. I only just completed the variable speed conversion and I over 1000 into the variable speed conversion. I did a high end conversion with totally new controls as I was inspired the conversion of a modern GH-1440 lathe by a user who posts here and on Canadian Hobby Machinist's form, but I can only remember his name is John and not either handle. I was really looking forward to doing a lot more work on this lathe.

The only reason I agreed to sell is because I got a chippy to restore.

So my strategy was to post a price that was reasonable, but that had room to have a decent price reduction to show apparent potential savings by the time to sell the lathe rolled around. Then I tossed in free delivery within about 100 kilometer radius since I know from past experience that is a huge barrier for many people who'd otherwise buy a new lathe just to avoid worry of moving used machine.

I also used the realtors tactic of prelisting and not having showings for a week to ten days to create anticipation and the FOMO. To alleviate potential concerns that buyers may miss out on another lathe while waiting to get in to see what could be a garbage lathe I created 7 video playlist on youtube to allow potential buyers to preview the lathe, the spindle run out, the sequence of operations of the lathe with the new VFD, and the accessories.

This strategy worked, I got about a dozen inquiries to which I replied fully to every question that they had and to many issues that they didn't mention but that i wanted them to consider, as well as asking about their location and what sort of shop the lathe would have to be moved into. From these exchanges I was able to separate the tire kickers and time wasters from the serious buyers, or so I thought. I had 3 people who appeared to be serious potential buyers. And one who initially said all the right things and who I had told my brother was my preferred buyer.

After expressing much enthusiasm and allegedly after watching all the videos and hearing all my answers the fellow said he was all set buy the lathe on the weekend. I was cool with his delivery location and grade level garage shop. The only hitch was that he said that he wanted to have his friend watch the videos and give his opinion and asked to be given time to solicit that opinion. I said that is fine with me since the showings were not until Saturday

The next day (Thurday) I had not heard back from the guy, but wsn't worried. Then I had a fellow contact me who wanted to buy the lathe right away like that afternoon, and come pay cash and pick-it up himself today (Friday). I said that we had a process outlined for the sale and had put other people who wanted to view the lathe off, but I'd ask my brother if he'd be comfortable contacting those people and "postponing" their appointments (I knew he would) and I said I'd get back to him later in the afternoon. I did however tell him I thought the Friday pickup would be impossible since my brother is not home today and I'm dead tired and really sore from a hard week and cold rainy weather...

Anyway, I decided to contact the young fellow who was my preferred buyer because he had expressed such keen interest in both the lathe and in mentoring and potentially using some of our shop equipment on his own projects just to see if he'd had his friend give his opinion yet. He hadn't so I laid out the situation and asked if he'd please do that and I'd hold off this other guy for a 1/2 day. He said he would and asked until 11:30pm to get back to me. I said fine, but was annoyed that he hadn't acted to get the opinion sooner.

What really ****** me off was not that the fellow lead me on repeated expressing his interest and desire to purchase the lathe if it checked out, and in wanting to come see it, and then eventually declining, I'd have been cool with that. But rather it was that he invented a fictitious friend to blame.

I'm positive the person is fake given the complete BS his fictitious machinist said:









I wont bother posting more of his continued BS but needless to say he continued trying to waste my time and post further crap so I blocked him. I never want to deal with that type again, I dont care is he listed a Alpha Romeo Spider for sale for free I wouldn't deal with him again.

End of rant.

BUT also beware you guys who convert your lathes to run on 3ph motors with VFDs you're going to have synchronization issues, this guy's master machinist friend says so.

I guess I also better stop procrastinating and go out in the rain to drive to the cold shop

 

[mmcmdl]

2 steps to selling
1- post object for sale
2- sell to first interested party that shows up .

 

[benmychree]

Another good reason not to convert to frequency drive! In my mind, ditto for ELS.

 

[mksj]

What does a VFD have to do with threading synchronization, nothing. The spindle is tied to the gearbox, spindle speed has no effect on the thread pitch. If that was true, ask him why lathe manufactures would sell lathes with VFD installed. ELS is offered on some high end lathes from the manufacturer, and how does he think CNC lathes work. A lot of people are fishing, scam artists, or just do not invest in learning (critical thinking). If somone is that ignorant, then I just move on to someone that has at least half of a brain that is working.

 

[GeneT45]

What I see is a guy who was seriously interested and a friend who is much less knowledgeable than the buyer thinks. Perhaps there's motive, or his friend just talks a big game and now wants to be let off the hook in terms of responsibility for the purchase. I cant' imagine someone with even a few weeks experience thinking that a VFD, RPC, line power, or overhead belt would limit your threading ability...

I guess the real message is, don't give up on beginners in general, but this guy's probably got some lessons to learn on his own - through no fault other than picking a bad "expert" to rely upon.

GsT

 

[projectnut]

I can understand the buyer's hesitancy to fork over $4000.00 for an unknown commodity. While you may have done an excellent job on the conversion, you're asking a potential customer to trust your skills with no guarantee the machine will perform as expected, and no recourse if it doesn't.

If you're offering a warranty period and documentation to support the changeover (schematics, parts list, etc.) you might have better luck getting a premium price. As it stands now the potential customer has no idea of exactly what was done to the machine, the quality and reliability of the components, or the skill level of the person performing the work.

They can't contact the original manufacturer for parts or support. They are essentially on their own once the cash has changed hands. If they don't have the skills and expertise to diagnose and repair possible future problems the machine becomes nothing more than an expensive paper weight.

Over the years I've purchased dozens of machines. I tend to shy away from those that have been modified by previous owners. All too often parts used at the time are either no longer available, or so expensive the machine isn't worth repairing.

I have built machines from the ground up knowing that if/when the time comes to sell them, I'll be lucky to sell them for a fraction of the money I have in them. As an example, several years ago, I built an articulated end loader about the size of a Bobcat. I spent several thousand dollars on parts and have well over 1,000 hours in design and fabrication time. The machine runs perfectly and will probably do so for many years to come.

That being said when the time to sell comes I'm asking any potential buyer to trust my fabrication skills and choice of components. In addition, they're taking the chance that if something does eventually break replacement parts will be available. I do have a parts list of the components used, but it might not be worth the paper it's printed on by the time I sell the machine. I already know the hydraulic motors have been replaced in the manufacturer's lineup with a different model. What I don't know is if the new model is a direct replacement, or physical modifications will need to be made to the machine to accept them.

You're going to have to find a customer with the skill sets to not only run the machine, but to diagnose and repair it should problems arise in the future.

 

[rabler]

If someone had installed a custom/homebrew ELS, I could see that being a bit more worrisome. An ELS does depend on the mechanism for leadscrew to spindle timing. If it was a homebrew ELS rather than a well known endeavor (such as the Clough42 design) that would be a challenge to debug even for someone with coding experience, if problems came up. Especially if you didn't have the source code. I suspect some miscommunication about this created confusion between VFD and ELS.

A VFD conversion, I would not hesitate, unless it was a no-name knock-off. In which case I would price in a replacement known VFD in the purchase price.

I have a Monarch 10EE lathe that had the electronics replaced with a pretty poor DC controller. I started to work up an improved microcontroller-based DC system which worked well, but then realized the DC motor itself is in rough shape. So I'm sitting on the fence of getting the DC motor repaired or replaced, or doing a VFD conversion. In this case I think a VFD conversion, if done with schematics and to reasonably neat workmanship standards, would be a resale win, but may still pursue the DC option.

 

[Jim F]

Try selling a SB 9C, noone wants a change gear lathe.........

 

[TorontoBuilder]

2 steps to selling
1- post object for sale
2- sell to first interested party that shows up .

But then some *&$) might get your stuff.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

Another good reason not to convert to frequency drive! In my mind, ditto for ELS.

Nonsense. His was not a real objection and was grossly ill informed. I guess you'd tell people not to buy servo lathes or smart lathes eh?

I have 3 other people wanting to buy the lathe as well. I was just trying to find a good home.