Question Machine stands

There also might be something to say about the 3 point foot system. It could help focus more of the vibration into 3 points instead of 4, idea being the stand exhibits less vibration because of it being focus on 3 points instead of 4? It was a popular way of leveling a machine seeing as 3 points define a plane. But just wondering if the less points would equate to less vibration, or could it be more points share more of the load of vibration?
Actually the 3 point are the minimum required to form a plane and so all three point will carry equal loads. A 4 point stand can allow a single point have less load than the other 3. With that said a 3 point stand can be a bit less stable if your are cantilevering mass outside its foot print.
 
The heavier stands will obviously be more rigid, hold more weight, and absorb vibrations better. However, I don't believe you need an 800 lb. stand for a 300 lb. machine. I built the stand for this lathe out of 3" square 1/4" wall tubing. The mounting plates for the lathe are 3/4" thick. The stand itself is in the 300 lb. range with the lathe weighing about the same.

I've been using the machine over 25 years and never had structural, rigidity, or vibration problems.
I bought a large wood lathe for my wife, it weights 400 pound on its own. she put a relatively small piece of wood on it which was slightly out of round and the thing almost walked out of the garage. I added a shelf underneath the lathe and put 450 pound on concrete in it, its between the bottom of the machine and the floor on the legs and now it stays put.... Mass is king.
 
Actually the 3 point are the minimum required to form a plane and so all three point will carry equal loads. A 4 point stand can allow a single point have less load than the other 3. With that said a 3 point stand can be a bit less stable if your are cantilevering mass outside its foot print.
Am I thinking about this correctly that the less points the better. So the vibration in the base will focus on less points meaning less system vibration. Or do I have it backwards where more points share more force. I keep thinking if you have a cylinder standing on edge and you introduce vibration that the thing will have a tendency to walk more if the floor is in contact with the full end. Instead having 3 points it would want to stay put because those 3 points "focus" vibration.
 
The number of contact points depends on what you are optimizing for: if you have small loads and want to avoid introducing any stresses back into the assembly you may go for a determined system (think leveling an optical instrument). When you are talking machine tools the foundation or stand can contribute significantly to the overall rigidity (i.e. maximum displacement under load). This is when you are introducing additional contact points to maximize that rigidity. It comes at the cost of having to deal with an over-determined mechanical system and the precision/adjustability of the contact points. With big machines you often don't even have a choice since the load bearing capacity of load points are limited (especially with different materials like steel/concrete).

More importantly, you want to influence the rigidity of the machine under dynamic loads. In effect the machine is going to vibrate. Think of it like a string instrument. Now if you make the unsupported spans of the machine shorter you change the frequency (normally increasing the range) and reduce the amplitude or maximal displacement which is normally understood as rigidity. And often you assume for small machines that your foundation is rigid -- in practice this is often not the case. For big machines you need to design the foundation carefully and the foundation can be a significant part of the machine's cost (think 30%).

Overall this is really tricky engineering stuff. I did my ME Master at TUM's Institute for Machine Tools (IWB). When German machine tool manufacturers ran into rigidity and vibration issues with new machines this is one of about four places they turned to for help. The PhDs on the subject are filling many many shelves and this is still an active area of research. The more interesting approaches nowadays are not only optimizing rigidity but have active systems to compensate for the dynamic effects of deformations.
 
Am I thinking about this correctly that the less points the better. So the vibration in the base will focus on less points meaning less system vibration. Or do I have it backwards where more points share more force. I keep thinking if you have a cylinder standing on edge and you introduce vibration that the thing will have a tendency to walk more if the floor is in contact with the full end. Instead having 3 points it would want to stay put because those 3 points "focus" vibration.
There are both good and bad points to consider if using 3 feet. 3 points are the least number of point required to create a plane, simple geometry, this is the concept a tripod is based upon. By using 3 points having an equal load on all points cannot be avoided, this is good, and leveling becomes very simple, this is why large granite plates are setup with 3 points of contact. If you use 3 points/legs there will be a greater load per contact point and you'll need to spread the feet out a bit to avoid the possibility of exceeding the foot print with enough mass to topple the mill, you can also add mass to the base to mitigate this issue. If you built the base so that it is big enough to allow the foot print of the mill to be within the triangle and place 2 point under the table it should be stable.
 
By using 3 points having an equal load on all points cannot be avoided

That’s only true for a center of mass equidistant from the three points. 3-point contact is significant because, with a simple support at each point (able to pivot), one cannot induce bending moments into the structure other than those resulting from its mass and internal stresses. In other words, the mounting does not bend the machine; because it is repeatable in that way, it’s often desirable.
 
That’s only true for a center of mass equidistant from the three points. 3-point contact is significant because, with a simple support at each point (able to pivot), one cannot induce bending moments into the structure other than those resulting from its mass and internal stresses. In other words, the mounting does not bend the machine; because it is repeatable in that way, it’s often desirable.
Unless you can balance the machine on 2 point, a line, you'll have equal loading on all three point with the machine setting in the middle of the triangle. If you have 4 or more points it becomes easy to have a poorly distributed load where 1 or more points will have less than the others. I do not have a masters degree in this but I do have over 40 years of experience dealing with large pieces of rotating equipment.
 
Unless you can balance the machine on 2 point, a line, you'll have equal loading on all three point with the machine setting in the middle of the triangle. OI
I think you're assuming a symmetric machine with its center of mass in the center. The point you're making about 3-point support, I believe, is that adjusting the feet does not change the load distribution. That does not mean the load is shared equally among the three feet.
 
As a matter of practicality look around your shop and see how many of the machines have been designed to be supported at 3 points.

I have 2 dozen machines in the shop and not a single one is supported at only 3 points. By in large they have 4 mounting points. Some gave 6, and some have 8. The only thing that has 3 contact points isa 24” x 36” cast iron surface plate

When using a 3 point system the load has to be centered and balanced to avoid stress and vibration. The load on a mill or lathe are rarely centered or balanced
 
Back
Top