Orientation of Machine Vice on Mill table

[SouthernChap]

So, here's a question, the various answers to which might possibly be determined by different practices in different countries but alternatively might actually reveal some useful considerations for me to be aware of (and hopefully others that come across this thread).

Some context first:

I have my cheap (but after a little bit of disassembly, deburring, cleaning and careful reassembly, really rather good) Vevor 4" vice oriented and located in a way that most would be familiar with; the fixed jaw is parallel with the x axis and the vice is located in the middle of the table's width (table is 8" x 26")

This seems to be fine so far. A minor irritation is that the handle, if held perpendicular to the screw when turned, does foul on the y axis handwheel; not a big deal, I just hold the handle at 45° or so when tightening or loosening the vice.

My table's depth and positioning of T slots does mean I either have a fair bit of the front of the vice (about 4"-5" of the total 12" of the vice) overhanging the front of the table, or I have an inch or so of the rear of the vice over hanging the rear. The latter does mean my y axis travel towards the column is a little constrained.

One thing I should make clear, is that in either case, the full capacity of the vice and both jaws, plus a bit of the mass behind the jaws, is always supported by the table*.

However, when reading a few books recently by well known English model engineers (Harold Hall being one example), I see they have their vices oriented with the fixed jaw perpendicular to the x axis (or, if you prefer, parallel to the y axis). No particular mention seems to be made of this orientation, it just seems to be taken as read.

Now, aside from having to hold the vice handle at a rather acute angle to clear the table surface (which could well turn out to be a major irritation), that orientation does have the advantage of having the vice's base completely supported by the table.

So, what do you chaps reckon?

Do these old English model engineers have a point, or are they crazy, or perhaps it's because us UK hobby machinists are space constrained and working on mills with small tables, whereas US hobby machinists mostly have mill tables you could fit a small sofa on!?

One other bonus question: (and let's assume I'm keeping this vice) should I prefer losing a bit of y axis travel and only having about a 3" overhang on the front or avoid that loss of y travel towards the column and have the 4-1/2" odd overhang on the front (remember, in either case, the work held in the vice will always have some part of the table underneath it and be supported)?

Thank you all in advance for your thoughts.

*Yeah, I know, pictures would be better but I'm at my company office right now, waiting for a meeting with a PITA existing customer, who are already half an hour late turning up.

 

[WobblyHand]

99.8% of the time my vise is mounted so the screw is pointed in the Y axis. I use a speed handle for tightening, so no fouling with the mill controls.

 

[GrifterGuru]

As regards the PITA late customer, Fire them as a customer. if they can't respect an appointment time without a valid reason for any delay in arrival, then that speaks volumes.

 

[GeneT45]

I favor supporting the fixed jaw and retaining Y-axis travel. I can think of only specious reasons to turn the vise sideways (yaws parallel to Y). It seems odd that Harold Hall would do something so different without explanation.

GsT

 

[SouthernChap]

As regards the PITA late customer, Fire them as a customer. if they can't respect an appointment time without a valid reason for any delay in arrival, then that speaks volumes.

They're a household name and are a significant revenue contributor to our business that's measured in the millions.

Short of them adopting a policy of regularly assaulting our staff, I rather think we'll be keeping them as customers...but hey, thanks for the advice!

 

[ChazzC]

In my limited experience, I have never seen the jaws parallel to Y unless for a specific setup.

I have my vise located so that the face of the fixed jaw when the table is all the way towards the column is about 5/16” past the spindle center so I can use a 1/2” end mill on the back of material held in the vise. It’s a 3” vise and my Y travel is 4” so I can “reach” all sides of rectangular parts that will fit in the vise with the jaws in their normal positions. (let me know if this description isn’t clear)

 

[SouthernChap]

I favor supporting the fixed jaw and retaining Y-axis travel.

The fixed and movable jaw (and about half of the cast iron block behind the fixed jaw) would still be supported, if I moved to next T slot rearwards but I get where you're coming from and I reckon you're right. I'm not really gaining any extra support of any part of the vice that matters, by moving rearwards.

I can think of only specious reasons to turn the vise sideways (yaws parallel to Y). It seems odd that Harold Hall would do something so different without explanation.

GsT

Yep, it seemed odd to me. When I see pictures of a vice on mill table in the standard configuration, it looks sensible to me.

Yet that's what he seems to favour. Here's a couple of pictures from his Milling Machine workshop practice book (God, I hate PDFs on phones, they're a PITA to cut and paste from):


Anyway, us English are peculiar sorts.

 

[Eddyde]

This seems to be fine so far. A minor irritation is that the handle, if held perpendicular to the screw when turned, does foul on the x axis handwheel; not a big deal, I just hold the handle at 45° or so when tightening or loosening the vice.

I assume you mean the Y axis hand-wheel?
Most mill vices have a removable handle for that very reason. Perhaps you could modify you vice?

 

[682bear]

Either way is correct... depending on the job...

Having the jaws parallel to the x-axis is typical on a vertical mill unless a particular job needs a different setup, in which case the vise can be set at any particular angle.

On a horizontal mill, it is as common to have the jaws parallel to the y-axis as it is to the x...

You do whatever needs to be done to get the job done...

-Bear

 

[SouthernChap]

I assume you mean the Y axis hand-wheel?
Most mill vices have a removable handle for that very reason. Perhaps you could modify you vice?

DOH! Yep, that's right! I shall edit to correct!

Oh, this vice does have a removable handle. It looks like this:



It's just a minor irritation having to hold the handle at about 45° rather than between 70°-80° or even 90° to be able to spin the handle with a finger when you want to open the jaws a bit quicker.