"Made in U.S.A." ? Germany? UK? Korea?

[jwmay]

Most buyers in the import market won't know the difference.

Most buyers period won't know the difference. I've often entertained myself with reading the accounts of newbies having never been involved in machining, much less have a working knowledge of what goes into a cast part go on long winded essays of all the things they found wrong with their brand new import machine. (Sand in places that don't matter seems very important to them)

The number of people in the world who were even alive in Americas machine tool hey day has got to be fairly whittled down by now. Of that finite group, could we really depend on them remembering what a brand new SB 13 looked like as it was pulled from its shipping crate? Did everything work exactly as it should?

I remember an article I read about the beginnings of Clausing machine tools. The guy was building and selling his lathes, right? Hadn't yet made any sort of numbers yet, but he was working towards it. He'd left a note or a journal entry saying something to the effect that he was thinking he'd gotten this lathe he had built working pretty much, or pretty well or something like that. Not perfect. Not "perfect in every imaginable way".... just pretty well. Now we don't know if he was being humble. But it indicates a different story of American Manufacturing than this idyllic notion that everything old American was a profoundly high quality machine.

I'm often amazed by the ingenuity of that time. The things they did with pencil and paper, their ability to judge steel temps by eye, the grit and craftsmanship of bonafide pattern makers. But almost all of that has been replaced by a computer. The machines do the thinking, and they are a far sight better at it as regards repeatability. There's no old files(scrap iron) or what have you being dumped into the pour. I've read accounts of such in anvil making in the US.

We live in the greatest technological era of humankinds history. And it'll have improved again before I post this message. Yes, plenty of new stuff from all over the world isn't as nice as we imagine it should be. Yes, some of it is downright junk. But make no mistake, our processes, our ability, and our potential is beyond the wildest dreams of anyone at Starrett circa 1940.

There was a time when buying something imported carried a little mystique with it. You must have deep pockets if you can afford doing that. Now we belly ache about "supply chain" issues as if the darn world is falling apart. I've got a presumably very nice machine being trucked right to my door, at no extra charge, all the way from China. Will it have some foibles? Maybe. But so does my made in 1942 Atlas lathe. Who cares? Well I will be grumbly until I get it sorted out. But if you gave me ten years I still couldn't build the thing any better than what they did, for their price.

As regards where the steel came from, I just can't say that it matters a wit. Steel is steel, separated in quality by price and utility. A Chinese or Brazilian I beam will stand no less bending force before yielding. The manufacturer specifies that, and has quality checks in line with current standards.
Having worked in manufacturing most of my adult life in the USA, I have a hard time identifying with the Made in USA logo having anything to do with us on the factory floor. Sure we should all take pride in our work. But generally, we are all just trying to meet the standards that were set out for us. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't see us all coming to work draped in the American flag, and fastidiously going over every aspect of quality on every part, or assembly. It's impossible. So there are hourly or semi hourly quality checks. There's nobody saying "well this is America, so I'll do extra checks". How many bad parts could have made it out the door in a half hour? Depends. Are you making 100k parts per shift? There's plenty of opportunity there. Are we going to throw all those suspect parts away? Are we gonna put a hold tag on it? Send it back through a crew of people who will physically reverify all 12k suspect parts? Tell the distributor? The answer is it depends.

There's nothing special about an origin label. If you want something that is almost perfect, buy from a person, not a company. I guarantee the guys selling things they made are going to be offering the absolute best representation of what they can do, every single time. It'll also smack you in the pocketbook like a chat rock at 60 mph.

Mass manufacturing will never make 100% perfect stuff. But they all try to. The scale is just too great for that. Your screwdrivers would cost ten times what they do to make that happen. And it wouldn't matter where they were made, or where the steel came from. And as I mentioned before, it already doesn't matter where the steel came from.

As a final thought: How many of us are making tooling and fixtures of aluminum nowadays that would have unquestionably been made of cast iron and steel 60 years ago? That aluminum does just fine. Heck, there are some near precision tools made of wood!

 

[finsruskw]

Just bought a new key switch to replace an original from a Cub Cadet from the 70's and it was made in India and a POS to boot.
The original keys will not interchange and it only came with one key that comes out when the unit is in the run position. Would probably work with a screw driver!!

 

[RJSakowski]

Quality control is the key to quality products. A final inspection will not catch hidden defects. This has to be done via in-process inspection. For 23 years, I made and sold equestrian timers. I had 29 in-process quality inspections during the manufacturing process. In 23 years, I never had a product returned due to defect.

Quality control is an expensive component in manufacturing with only subtle benefits. As a manufacturing engineering manager in a medical device company, I was also responsible for managing the quality control group. This is unusual as managing manufacturing engineering and qyality control is considered a conflict of interest.

At one point, the company decided to hire a trained quality assurance engineer to manage the quality control group. Hr gave a lecture to the company where he was talking about the cost of quality control. He insisted that the proper amount of quality was the point at which customers began to complain. My position was that we should never knowingly allow an inferior product to go out the door. I left the company a year later.

 

[mmcmdl]

Just bought a new key switch to replace an original from a Cub Cadet from the 70's and it was made in India and a POS to boot.
The original keys will not interchange and it only came with one key that comes out when the unit is in the run position. Would probably work with a screw driver!!

Say it isn't so . That Cub deserves better fin !

 

[mmcmdl]

Back thru the eighties we made many components for the nuclear subs . Every piece of metal , every nut , bolt , weld etc. was checked and rechecked . If the certifications were not complete when the job was finished , the parts were rejected until they were . Even the paint had to be certified . Although the government would accept the parts when done and all CoCs were in order , only one person could ever give the go-ahead for using on the sub ..........................that was the captain of the ship . I'm sure it's the same these days .

Same for Space Flight jobs . If the ducks didn't line up , it didn't go into space . NASA had inspectors coming into our shop daily . Every piece of metal , all tools in the inspection dept had to be certified by them , and them alone . I think one of my co-workers ended up with NASA in quality control .

 

[finsruskw]

Yeah, and it's one I want to sell.
Sure won't sell w/a switch that won't hole the dam key!!
Waiting on another part for it as well that was supposedly shipped from Cleveland on the 21st!!
Go figure, last expected delivery is now May 3rd.
USPS sucks!
Kinda like the belt I got last month after the 3000 mile detour it took to get from Indiana to Iowa!

 

[jwmay]

In 23 years, I never had a product returned due to defect.

And this should be a point of pride. But we also know that MOST people who have a complaint don't report it to the company. They tell their friends about it. They complain online. But they don't contact the manufacturer and explain why this thing isn't what it should be. They just mark it down as a POS from who knows where, and go buy another from somewhere else.

 

[matthewsx]

Might that be because the actual metal was turned elsewhere?

As stated above by RJ it's due to the amount of material sourced from overseas. I can't imagine what it would cost to produce the bikes if everything was built in the US, or even if you could source all the parts domestically. Mega conglomerates can do it because they own the entire process and can force their suppliers to locate a plant in the US if needed. But, every product is built to a price point and global economics are a reality for every company.

I actually do have experience with a product that is 100% USA built but haven't produced it in quite a while. The guy I bought my racing kart/engine building business from set out to to that in the early 2000's and I am now the owner of Heartbeat Racing's Time Machine kart. It wad darn fast too, he even beat one of my drivers with it at the local track. Mike was a multiple Duffy (IKF) winner and wanted to build a kart in the USA that would compete with the Italian manufacturers. We sold a few but the economics of it didn't work even if I went to Italian components. I still have the jigs some hard parts, and a couple of complete chassis if anyone is interested....

John

 

[matthewsx]

Anyone wanna buy a USA racing kart company, I'll make you a good deal....

 

[graham-xrf]

FTC and the like aside, I like to know parts, tools and other goods I buy were made in the United States. It's not always possible. That is due part in fact to manufacturers buying parts and assemblies made elsewhere. Some feel that manufacturing replacement/repair parts are not worth their while. So, in my case I'm making do with crank assembly pieces from Tiawan for my old Harley. No American oem or American aftermarket available.
I just take pride in "Made in U.S.A."

Non USA residents (like me) have long been aware of the sentiment that goes along with being a Harley owner. Interesting also is that there is a 2021 revival model of one that I first became aware of when out in Africa in 1974. Harley makers must believe the market still loves them! The Harley kit must then have appeal to more than two generations, unless it be held up by a fan base of ageing "Made in USA" adherents. Maybe the whole deal somewhat rubbed off on their kids



If any Harley aficionados in the know are about to tell me how much of this machine is actually made in Asia, then please let me down gently!