Gorton P1-2 weird spindle?

[Rex Walters]

when going from letter to letter on the copy table. Is the stylus supposed to retract up and down? Or do you just flex the bar holding the stylus?

The stylus is clamped in a collet. It's okay to flex the bar slightly to move from letter to letter (just be sure to retract the cutter with the little lever on the spindle first! ). How far you extend the stylus (how much pressure you create) is a matter of personal preference. I don't like it too tight (and I sometimes put a little oil in the grooves of my brass copy to make it easier to move the stylus around).

 

[benmychree]

Don't badmouth the taper spindle and cutters, I have a Gorton 3U, and have all 3 types of spindles, the collet type with 5/16" straight bore and uses split collets for different size straight shank cutters, and the tapered collet type with threaded nose and nut, and the taper type, which I like best of all because it is the fastest to change cutters, I nearly always used tapered shank cutters or sometime midget chucks. I have A LOT of tapered shank cutters, there used to be quite a lot of them on E Bay, but are seldom seen these days due to folks hoarding them, I suppose. I think if you could find another spindle shaft it could be interchanged with the taper type in your existing assembly, I do have a disassembled 5/16 collet type that I would let go, and also an interchangeable collet type that is brand new unused, but it would be worth a good bit more than the $500 one.

See that little nub on the other end of the spindle? That's a follower for any inverse/concave form you clamp above it. The clamp that holds the spindle is normally clamped down tight with the dog of a set screw riding in a groove around the OD of the spindle, preventing it from moving up and down. But properly adjusted, the spindle can move up and down under spring pressure if the dog is backed out. (That's the purpose of the large spring shown in the lower right of the drawing that @Braeden P posted.

There is a flat bar that extends out from the body of the mill over the top of the spindle. The bar has screw holes for mounting forms. You can custom make anything you want, but it needs to be an exact inverse of whatever you're engraving. It's most useful for simple shapes, like engraving relatively multi-digit numbers around the circumference of a small dial. Without the form, the digits away from top dead center won't be engraved deeply enough (for single digit numbers, it really isn't necessary to use a forming guide).

Gorton also used to sell an adjustable form that had a piece of spring steel with a screw that you could adjust for different diameter dials.

Keep an eye out for sharp taper-shank engraving cutters. They are very convenient (no need to fiddle with collets.

If you do find a collet spindle, try to find one that comes with all the collets!

I have Gorton cutter grinders and can sharpen taper shank points easily with angled points, mostly with 60 degree points in both carbide and HSS, I sharpen them to a sharp point and then they can be "tipped" by hand with a stone for a flat point to form larger impressions.

 

[benmychree]

Someone posted about retracting the cutter when moving from one character of copy to the next; that is what the lever on the spindle is for, it retracts the cutter enough to clear the cut and resets it for the depth of the next character to be cut; I keep my fingers on it all the while I am engraving, and the other hand on the stylus to follow the setup of copy for most work.

 

[benmychree]

The stylus is clamped in a collet. It's okay to flex the bar slightly to move from letter to letter (just be sure to retract the cutter with the little lever on the spindle first! ). How far you extend the stylus (how much pressure you create) is a matter of personal preference. I don't like it too tight (and I sometimes put a little oil in the grooves of my brass copy to make it easier to move the stylus around).

I use enough pressure on the stylus to avoid having it jump out of the copy too easily, ruining the job. Gorton recommends going over the copy with a greasy rag, but if I have a sticky place in a character of copy, I sometimes just put a small drip of spindle oil on it. Note that there is a bearing cover marked GREASE below the copy table, the bearing makes very little motion, it just allows the arm that located the jackshaft pullies for the drive belts a bit of motion; this cover is a slip fit in the bearing housing, so as to be easily removed so littld dabs of grease can be removed with your finger and used to lube the copy or grease up the rag for that purpose.

 

[benmychree]

I have a couple papers about the pantographs. My pantograph has the later model spindle with the collet and the book (1950) shows the early model with the taper. Your machine is not in if the papers I have. The spindle should be the same as the picture below. If you want to run larger sizes you will probably have to make a collet chuck that fits in the taper, just the midget chuck but with a larger collect, ER 11 gives a good range but may be too big to run off the taper.View attachment 496396

Braedon P, it is tapered. After posting I found some extra bits the seller included and they are labeled “tapered”. Do you know if it can be converted back to a standard straight collet style?​

 

[benmychree]

The flats on the taper spindle are for disassembling the spindle assembly such as to replace the bearings they have no other function.

 

[Braeden P]

Don't badmouth the taper spindle and cutters, I have a Gorton 3U, and have all 3 types of spindles, the collet type with 5/16" straight bore and uses split collets for different size straight shank cutters, and the tapered collet type with threaded nose and nut, and the taper type, which I like best of all because it is the fastest to change cutters, I nearly always used tapered shank cutters or sometime midget chucks. I have A LOT of tapered shank cutters, there used to be quite a lot of them on E Bay, but are seldom seen these days due to folks hoarding them, I suppose. I think if you could find another spindle shaft it could be interchanged with the taper type in your existing assembly, I do have a disassembled 5/16 collet type that I would let go, and also an interchangeable collet type that is brand new unused, but it would be worth a good bit more than the $500 one.

I have Gorton cutter grinders and can sharpen taper shank points easily with angled points, mostly with 60 degree points in both carbide and HSS, I sharpen them to a sharp point and then they can be "tipped" by hand with a stone for a flat point to form larger impressions.

I’ve got a Gorton 265-6 grinder and a collet that holds the taper shank cutters. I’m glad it has a few other sized collets since 4NS collets are hard to find and expensive. I am yet to use it for grinding a bits, Ives only done valves so far. And if anyone needs an axle nut cover for a rolls Royce silver ghost I can make it.

 

[Rex Walters]

@benmychree taught me everything I know about my Gorton (I bought it off of him after all!).

I used to wonder what the little notches were around where the belt goes on the spindle. I finally learned that they are for indexing with the spindle held in a grinder!



No matter how carefully you grind your cutters, it will never be as accurate as grinding with the cutter held in the actual spindle you'll use it with. I made a Quorn T&C grinder a few years ago, but I've yet to make a vee block mount to hold my Gorton spindles on it. The Quorn really isn't ideal for the task (I really need to acquire a Gorton grinder).

 

[Braeden P]

@benmychree taught me everything I know about my Gorton (I bought it off of him after all!).

I used to wonder what the little notches were around where the belt goes on the spindle. I finally learned that they are for indexing with the spindle held in a grinder!

View attachment 496660

No matter how carefully you grind your cutters, it will never be as accurate as grinding with the cutter held in the actual spindle you'll use it with. I made a Quorn T&C grinder a few years ago, but I've yet to make a vee block mount to hold my Gorton spindles on it. The Quorn really isn't ideal for the task (I really need to acquire a Gorton grinder).

Those Gorton grinders may be small but not light! I had an easier time moving the pantograph and even the Bridgeport. Gorton made a vee block mount but mine did not come with it.

 

[Rex Walters]

Those Gorton grinders may be small but not light! I had an easier time moving the pantograph and even the Bridgeport. Gorton made a vee block mount but mine did not come with it.

Oddly enough, I just bought a surface grinder today (my first). It just occurred to me that it will be infinitely easier to grind single lip cutters held in a Gorton spindle on a surface grinder than it would be to design something for my Quorn.

I see a custom vee block fixture in my future!

So many projects and only 24 hours in a day...