Dipping my toes into turning

[Huub Buis]

For learning to turn parts, a small lathe is more suitable. If you make a mistake on a heavy machine, the damage will be considerable.
My oldest (+ 10 years) lathe is a 12" Chinese of 60 kg. It cuts steel at 0.02" depth of cut (0.04"reduction in diameter) without a problem. I still use it for small parts. It is as precise as my bigger (24" 300 kg) lathe, it just needs a lesser depth of cut for the final 2 passes.
My preferred tools are insert type (carbide) but some times a HSS tool does a better job. I use a jig for (re)grinding HSS tools and can regrind a HSS tool way faster than changing an insert.

 

[mksj]

I would recommend sticking with either a 1340 or 1440 unless you are space limited, Eisen does sell a 1324 Taiwanese model. The Taiwanese lathe are typically better built, both quality of the castings and fit/finish and also operational. In a lathe I recommended going 3 phase for multiple reason, better surface finish, ability for frequent stop/starts, no risk of the motor not reversing if you suddenly change direction. Cost is nominal, you can buy a VFD and do what I call a basic VFD install (see it for 1340GT) for probably under $500. You get controlled acceleration and braking as well as speed control, I also think it enhances the safety aspects.

The Acra BV-1340 is probably the same model of the Sharp 1340V, otherwise I would recommend the PM-1340GT. You are less likely to outgrow a 1340/1440 model, they do very well on small and larger projects, have more standard arrangements of controls, gibs, chuck mounts etc. The smaller lathes are much more of a compromise, but then it all depends on the budget. David Best's book on idexable tooling is very helpful, and for the inexperienced newbie, why add grinding tooling to the learning curve. I use indexable/insert tooling almost exclusively on my lathes, much simpler and I get great finish with no worries. Smaller lathes or low Hp then sure go grind your own HSS.

Everything is based on a budget, and also experience, newbies usually get screwed when buying a used lathe and not knowing what they want and how to assess it. YMMV.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Having never run a lathe, getting a big one first off creates a SERIOUS safety hazard
.

What is a big lathe?

 

[WobblyHand]

What is a big lathe?

Suppose it is all what you are used to... For a watch maker, a mini-lathe is huge. For someone turning flywheels for a power station, a 24" lathe is small potatoes.

Bigger tends to be better, many times, as it extends your work envelope. But bigger takes up lots of room, which not everyone has. Bigger uses a lot more power. Bigger is harder to get in place, if you don't have the equipment.

In the end, you have to get the machine that fits in your work space, your budget, and is within your capabilities.

 

[Skippy]

Even though I was a noob, two years ago I bought a 1340GT because I subscribe to the buy once cry once theory and for resale when it comes time to part ways (hopefully a long time). I figured a lathe that size would have more of a commercial appeal and something more than hobby grade.
I installed a VFD using Mark’s instructions and highly recommend variable speed.
I too also use mostly insert tooling, but you will find that grinding your own form tools will make your life a lot easier.

 

[Skippy]

If you want examples of precision turning on a small lathe, check out the Clickspring videos. Amazing

 

[davidpbest]

I concur with Mark's ( @mksj ) perspective on size and model. I have the PM-1340GT and found it to be a very good size, even though I was originally trying to special-order a 1324 from PM. I have also read enough here on H-M to understand the value of a 3-phase machine in terms of surface finish and the ability to control it with a VFD and all the benefits that this can provide. The Acra BV-1340 looks like a very nice choice, but it's outside your stated target budget.

One thought I had was back to your original thinking of the Eisen 1340 as a starter machine. It's single phase, but you could always do a 3-phase conversion downstream when you hopefully have more money to invest in it. I replaced the factory PM-1340GT 3-phase motor on my lathe with a vector-rated replacement and a new set of controls from Mark that also provided electronic proximity stop, joy-stick jog function, better E-stop, coolant control, and of course variable speed. The vector-rated motor provided enough additional torque and power that I could dispense with a 2-position belt drive and stick with a single belt position. I don't know what Mark would charge now for a new control package, but his estimate of about $500 if you did it yourself sounds generous. A replacement 3-phase vector-rated motor would probably be in the $600-700 range - it all depends on the physical size limits which dictate which models you can squeeze into the existing mounting platform. They do pop up at New Old Stock on eBay from time to time (I got my $1,600 Baldor for $500 this way, but you have to be willing to wait). Have a look at this thread. And this $570 Marathon unit is one of the motors that is typically substituted for factory on this size lathe, but there are others. Anyway, you could start with the single-phase Eisen, and over time switch to 3-phase if you have the motivation and cash.

As for tooling, don't let others bludgeon you into shop-made HSS tooling if that doesn't sound attractive to you. I'm on my 3rd and final lathe now over a 25 year span, and have never ground any HSS tooling for any of them. If you absolutely want the cutting characteristics of HSS, you can always outfit your indexable tooling with HSS inserts. You'll find that discussed on page 42 in my book - which apparently you already have. AR Warner makes a number of indexable HSS alternatives.

I'm attaching my curated list of other tooling you might discover you want to consider at some point. And at some point you'll be scratching your head over what collet system to settle on for the lathe, so I'm attaching a write-up on that topic as well. If I can help further, feel free to DM me.

 

[OTmachine]

What is a big lathe?

VTL?

 

[koenbro]

I concur with Mark's ( @mksj ) perspective on size and model. I have the PM-1340GT and found it to be a very good size, even though I was originally trying to special-order a 1324 from PM. I have also read enough here on H-M to understand the value of a 3-phase machine in terms of surface finish and the ability to control it with a VFD and all the benefits that this can provide. The Acra BV-1340 looks like a very nice choice, but it's outside your stated target budget.

One thought I had was back to your original thinking of the Eisen 1340 as a starter machine. It's single phase, but you could always do a 3-phase conversion downstream when you hopefully have more money to invest in it. I replaced the factory PM-1340GT 3-phase motor on my lathe with a vector-rated replacement and a new set of controls from Mark that also provided electronic proximity stop, joy-stick jog function, better E-stop, coolant control, and of course variable speed. The vector-rated motor provided enough additional torque and power that I could dispense with a 2-position belt drive and stick with a single belt position. I don't know what Mark would charge now for a new control package, but his estimate of about $500 if you did it yourself sounds generous. A replacement 3-phase vector-rated motor would probably be in the $600-700 range - it all depends on the physical size limits which dictate which models you can squeeze into the existing mounting platform. They do pop up at New Old Stock on eBay from time to time (I got my $1,600 Baldor for $500 this way, but you have to be willing to wait). Have a look at this thread. And this $570 Marathon unit is one of the motors that is typically substituted for factory on this size lathe, but there are others. Anyway, you could start with the single-phase Eisen, and over time switch to 3-phase if you have the motivation and cash.

As for tooling, don't let others bludgeon you into shop-made HSS tooling if that doesn't sound attractive to you. I'm on my 3rd and final lathe now over a 25 year span, and have never ground any HSS tooling for any of them. If you absolutely want the cutting characteristics of HSS, you can always outfit your indexable tooling with HSS inserts. You'll find that discussed on page 42 in my book - which apparently you already have. AR Warner makes a number of indexable HSS alternatives.

I'm attaching my curated list of other tooling you might discover you want to consider at some point. And at some point you'll be scratching your head over what collet system to settle on for the lathe, so I'm attaching a write-up on that topic as well. If I can help further, feel free to DM me.

Thank you for your suggestions David and especially for the curated list of tooling. I liked the similar three-tiered approach in your book on indexed tooling. Wil definitely refer to both as I am building up the toooling.

As for the lathe, I am very tempted by the conversion: start with the 1-ph, and once I learned how to use it (and recovered financially from the initial purchase) upgrade to 3-ph.

Trying to go smaller, I priced out a PM 1236 from Taiwan and it comes close to $10K -- at that point why not go 1340? PM does not offer Taiwanese 10-11" lathes.

I contacted Eisen and basically the 1324 is out of the race.

So I am converging on the 1340 size. As for the specific make/model, does anyone know if the Eisen version of the 1340 has any major design drawback or is it basicallly the same as the PM version? Does it have a Norton Quick Change mechanism and is that a problem?
After

 

[davidpbest]

So I am converging on the 1340 size. As for the specific make/model, does anyone know if the Eisen version of the 1340 has any major design drawback or is it basicallly the same as the PM version? Does it have a Norton Quick Change mechanism and is that a problem?

If this is the Eisen machine you're referring to, then no - it doesn't have a traditional Norton gearbox that's external and drips oil like the PM-1340GT has. You wouldn't have to deal with this. The gearbox that drives the saddle/crossslide movement is built into the base of the headstock, and it will have its own enclosed oil bath.

That said, this is not a "universal gearbox" like you'd find on the PM-1440TL which can cut any tread type (including Acme, Metric, etc.) without having to swap gears on the banjo-side of the headstock. The Eisen machine looks to me like it's almost identical to the PM-1440GT in terms of the gearing, and unlike machines with a "Universal gearbox" you can expect to manually swap out gears under the cover on the left of the headstock to attain selected metric threading capabilities. Have a look at the manual for the PM-1440GT page 14 for a discussion of this. It's entirely possible that the Eisen 1340 is built in the same factory as the PM-1440GT and shares several components. The Eisen 1340 and the PM-1340GT are in the same ballpark weight of 1100 pounds plus the stand.