Buying my first new lathe. Chinese or Chinese?

Grizzly is fine for hobby use for the most part. PM is even better if you can afford it.
Definitely don't buy Vevor or Bolton. Baileigh might be ok? Don't know about their service-
Little Machine Shop sells some nice little lathes and has good service and parts.
 
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Recently I’ve been thinking about the subject of buying a first machine. I have a new friend on the forum that has helped me to remember what that was like which for me is getting to be a while ago. I’ve had quite a few machines through the years – Taiwanese, European, American, new and used. I’ve even gotten into rebuilding and restoring machines.

One of the funny things about machining or at least getting into it is that most people just starting out don’t want to spend very much. This is understandable. The problem is with machine tools the less spend the more you need to know. If you are going to buy used, you need to understand how to evaluate them, how to work on them somewhat and how to compensate for even a little bit of wear. But buying new doesn’t always get you out of the woods as I’ve seen plenty of cheaper, newer machines with some pretty serious problems. A lot of people spend too much time trying to figure out which machine and not enough time figuring out what makes for a good machine.

By spending a little more up front on new or used, you help eliminate the machine as part of the problem when you’re trying to figure things out. It even makes it a little easier for others to help. I realize we all have different budgets and priorities and whichever road you choose you can still get there. I’m just not sure that in the long run spending less is really the cheapest way to get there.
 
I suspect most of the folks panning Grizzly have never owned a largish Grizzly machine. Some of it is a knee-jerk reaction to anything imported, and some of it is Grizzly's fault. For starters, whereas PM seems to sell only good quality tools, Grizzly sells the full range from complete junk to good quality. I've been using a Grizzly mill for over 20 years and it's still a good, tight, machine. Much better than the clapped out Bridgeports that I could find when I started looking for a mill. Much better. In my circle of friends there are multiple Grizzly G0750 lathes - I think someone bought one and it impressed others in the club and so on, but I know of at least four happy owners. With Grizzly you need to shop carefully (and preferably visit a showroom, or someone who has the machine you're considering) but some of their stuff is very good. I don't have the experience with PM, but I see a lot of praise and nothing bad about them.

GsT
 
"A lot of people spend too much time trying to figure out which machine and not enough time figuring out what makes for a good machine".
Well put! Couldn't say it better myself
Also, many beginners are intimidated by the idea of grinding their own HSS tools but I consider it a must
It used to be required learning in high school shops across the country before the instructor would let you loose on a lathe
 
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Well there is definitely one thing for sure in this forum, I have not seen anyone say anything bad about the PM machines (Chinese or Taiwanese). Might need to rethink the wait times and just put the down payment on one. It will put me behind a bit but I would rather have good quality and great service.
Is there anyone here that has added a VFD and 3ph motor to their lathe?
 
Is there anyone here that has added a VFD and 3ph motor to their lathe?
Plenty of people here have done that and can walk you through that when the time comes. @mksj has done a lot of conversions for people here. One thing to keep in mind is many of these machines use nonstandard motors, so you are limited in what will fit on your machine without significant modifications. Once you decide on the machine you want, someone here will probably know what will be involved with that machine.

I bought a PM1236T in three phase and added a VFD when it arrived. The stock motor works fine for me, but others have replaced it with a better quality motor. A lot of it comes down to how much you want to spend, and how quickly. I decided to take a wait and see approach and 2 years later still have the stock motor installed.
 
The Grizzly/ PM choices are probably the best. Due to the very good support from PM, I consider PM the best choice personally due to the experience I have had with PM. I'm sure that if you expect a Monarch 10EE from either one you will be sorely disappointed but if you are buying Chinese you will get a better machine from either brand. I have had to stay at the lower price point with my PM machines (PM 727M and PM1130V) lathe and have had very few bugs to work out. I feel PM has been very helpful the couple of times I have needed support, and the 3-year warranty definitely helps me feel good about them. I'm relatively certain the Tiawan-made machines are even nicer.
 
You would want to buy a 3 phase lathe, and then add a VFD if it is not available as a factory option. You can read through the post below which gives some details of how to do it. See post #89 for the last set of updated documents. This basically applies to the PM-1236T, 1340GT and there is a separate posting that applies to the 1440GT. PM/QMT offers two 1440 lathe models with factory VFD's, I wold recommend going with a factory VFD for the PM-1440-2SM-V or PM-1440BV if you are looking at mainland China lathes in that size. As I mentioned, I think the former PM-1440-2SM-V has many nice new features, but a number of other people have previously bought the PM-1440BV and I haven't heard of any issues/concerns with it. The 1340GT would be my recommendation in a Taiwanese made lathe with higher build quality, but they will all turn metal to the same accuracy.

The basic VFD install using the factory 3 phase motor is probably going to run in the $800-1K when you are all said and done. What I call the basic VFD conversion works well, but only recommended for new lathes where the contactors have not been used. It also requires basic knowledge of electrical wiring. A few people have bought the single phase models of the lathe because they where available, but there are very few 3 phase motors that will fit the motor space, and figure another $400-600 for a 3 phase motor. All of this has been previously posted if you do a search in this forum.

If you are just starting out, I do not recommend buying a used lathe, unless you are very mechanically inclined and do not mind spending a lot of time and money restoring it. The other recommendation as tailstock4 mentioned, pay a bit more up front, do not scrimp, i.e. buy once - cry once. If you buy poor/cheap equipment, chances are you will be unhappy and eventually replace it down the line, it will cost you more in the long run.

Lathes also require a lot of additional accessories to make them functional, and you need to include a substantial budget for the additional tooling and chucks. I would figure at least another $2-4K in additional costs. Decent chucks is important, the PM-1440-2SM-V comes with a Set-True type of 3J scroll chuck (the typical generic Chinese chucks that come with the less expensive lathes usually become door stoppers), I would add the PM 4J Taiwanese independent 8", and also the PM Set-True type collet chuck (either 5C or ER40, David Best has a white paper on the pros/cons of each) which is used for smaller diameter stock. The PM/QMT chucks offer very good quality at a reasonable price. If you go with say Bison, TMX, PBA or similar higher end chucks it will cost you 2-3X more. Cheap chucks, are just that, so don't complain when you have issues with them. Last but not least do not buy cheap turning tools, or sets, you will only be disappointed. David Best has written a book which demystifies the topic, and outlines recommendations on indexable tooling, it will pay for itself with your first indexable tooling purchase.

 
My PM lathe and mill (both Taiwan made) were of a much better quality than the Griz stuff I owned previously. Warranty and support from PM was top shelf IMO back when I owned their machines, but I have not had any dealings with them for a few years now. YMMV of course.
 
I would not buy a Chinese anything if I can help it. I have owned both Chinese and Taiwanese and it is just way more than paint. Fit, finish, quality of castings, dials, you name it are superior with a Taiwanese machine.
As others have pointed out, old machines have a lot of value to them but need to be carefully evaluated.

A number of us have Eisen machines. They are made in Taiwan and on par with PM. Eisen machines are usually in stock too, which is important since it seems delivery dates get extended more often than not by PM.



I have a 1440E BTW.
 
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