Attach hook to cable end

[gard]

The other end is raw it gets clamped onto the winch drum. The cable is 200 feet of 1/2" swage wire rope.

I have 6 sliders, a slightly different design than above because this is a tractor mounted farmi winch, not a full sized skidder. I like having a hook directly on the cable end because I think there is less wear on the cable than the sliders for stubborn logs. There are probably some other local shops I can try.

 

[gard]

Logging is a part time hobby for me. The cable does take a beating. After awhile it starts getting frayed near the ends, when it gets bad enough you can cut off 10 feet or so, then next time swap the cable end for end, eventually it gets short enough. That combined clamp and thimble looks like a great idea, only "rated" for 4000 lb on a 9000 winch

 

[aliva]

you could also do your own eye splice with a thimble no clamps needed. Just google wire rope eye splice.
I've done it with rope for my boat. Not difficult and looks very neat.

 

[Jake M]

Logging is a part time hobby for me. The cable does take a beating. After awhile it starts getting frayed near the ends, when it gets bad enough you can cut off 10 feet or so, then next time swap the cable end for end, eventually it gets short enough. That combined clamp and thimble looks like a great idea, only "rated" for 4000 lb on a 9000 winch

A 9000 pound winch is only 9000 pounds on the first wrap. At the top wrap, with the specified size and type of cable, the actual pull will just about exactly match the specified wire rope strength. You'd have to do the geometry on your drum to see where it's at. but yeah... And add to that, you have a winch that was "probably" spec'ed by the equipment manufacturer, and logging winches tend to use cables WAY larger than other industries, because they know full well that you're going to (on purpose, by design) do just about everything wrong when it comes to caring for that cable. So they're oversized compared to standard. Not for the strength, but because they will typically be wet, filled with dirt, probably get some kinks here and there, etc.

Logging is a part time hobby for me. The cable does take a beating. After awhile it starts getting frayed near the ends, when it gets bad enough you can cut off 10 feet or so, then next time swap the cable end for end, eventually it gets short enough. That combined clamp and thimble looks like a great idea, only "rated" for 4000 lb on a 9000 winch

First and foremost, I'm afraid this post is going to come off with the wrong intention, so let me be clear up front. I am NOT trying to push you here... My only to explain I would suggest that as a possiblility with such a great disagreement in the numbers. If you're not 100 percent comfortable with what I'm saying.... This is industrial stuff, made with lots of weight, lots of force, and lots of potential energy stored at any given time... PLEASE DO NOT EVER take my advice (or anybody's advice) unless you're completely comfortable with it. Forget getting killed, even if you've got to crouch and duck because you're worried about an incident happening that never actually happens, life is too short to live it that way.

First, is experience. We use those clamps on 3/8 "standard" 7X19 IWRC ropes, on 8,000 to 10,000 poundd hydraulic winches. Our winches (and any that I have encountered on the repair side as well) are all rated in pull strength on the bottom wrap. With the drum full, our winches ALL have a pull rating about equal to a specific cable type, construction, and material that will be called out on the data tag, which is WAY less than the winches capacity. We've also used them on the larg(er) "medium duty" wrecker, which uses 1/2 "standard" 7X19 IWRC on 12,000 pound winches. The mismatch of capacity there is not a mistake, it's just how the ratings and matchings are done. And as I said, those particular clamps are not the weak link when we do it.

So that's experience. Here's my take on the numbers. If you take a "standard" wire rope break strength, which is half inch in your case, you're looking at 5:1 for the workinig load. That's solid into overhead lifting territory. (Which these are NOT for....). Then knock off their derate percentage for the repair, and that's about their rating. If you have an unrated wire rope, the absolute minimum it can be, the amount you assign to an unmarked rope of unknown geneology, you're still rock solid at 4:1 doing it that way. Newco Manufacturing, (who used to be independant, then was owned by Muncie, but I think has recently been sold?) has never published any ultimate or breaking loads on these clamps. They are a reputable company, US enough that they CAN be reached by liability lawyars, and this is a "field installed" fitting. So you would expect them to rate concervatively. And I'm sure you know of and may have experienced some of the well rated repair commponents and hardware that fail at a third of what they're rated for... So I use those numbers to "reverse engineer" the missing specifications, apply common sense, and validate that with "what they really do in the wild". So long as my reverse engineering is consistant with what I find by doing the same math to a similar (quality) product, AND so long as I find real world performance that matches this, and ESPECIALLY if I've been using something for long enough to have a couple of real world failures? What did the cowboys do to this to make it fail? How does that compare to other options? How does that compare to an original, manufactured product with a factory eye at the end... If the product does as well or better, I'm good.

Osha and the insurance company could give two (craps) about my observations of how the abuse falures compare to other products, however both of those entities are quite satisfied with these repairs. Osha doesn't give a damn, so long as it's marked. The insurance company doesn't call it "temporary", they let me keep them. They do that with crosby clips, I'm allowed to use those, but those are to get you home, and have to be updated to something perminant "as soon as practicable", or "temporary until a repair can be affected" or something along those lines.

And two more real world factors that I always consider-
Because winches are rated the way they are and cables selected the way they are, the onus is ALWAYS on the operator. You can never "rate" yourself into a point of not paying attentioin to what you're doing.
And swaged rope- Because even though it's a half an inch diameter, what you have a 9/16 inch rope there (there's at least one company doing 5/8, but most are for sure 9/16), save for a few specialized items, you will NEVER find hardware that's properly rated for that rope. So you're gonna have to live with that. That's most of the reason I said I'd consider unspooling it and using a sliding hook, is simply that that will allow a suitable bend radius when the hook pulls on the stop, so you need not cut it. On the other hand, I do not disagree with your counterpoint here.

And I'm going to repeat myself again- I do NOT want to "talk you into this" or "talk you out of that". I'm just was offering another option that not many are aware of. I did that in the first post. My ONLY purpose in this follow up is to answer what I think is a VERY fair question about weight ratings that don't seem to jive.

I see that you're up to a fix that might solve two problems... If you've got a winch, that will physically accept a rope with a 2:1 (or better) margin over the winch, on it's lowest wrap, and you can get something on there (without having to carry it out to a shop to get it done)... If you can pull it off, that's gonna be a win on every level.

 

[gard]

First, is experience. We use those clamps on 3/8 "standard" 7X19 IWRC ropes, on 8,000 to 10,000 poundd hydraulic winches. Our winches (and any that I have encountered on the repair side as well) are all rated in pull strength on the bottom wrap. With the drum full, our winches ALL have a pull rating about equal to a specific cable type, construction, and material that will be called out on the data tag, which is WAY less than the winches capacity. We've also used them on the larg(er) "medium duty" wrecker, which uses 1/2 "standard" 7X19 IWRC on 12,000 pound winches. The mismatch of capacity there is not a mistake, it's just how the ratings and matchings are done. And as I said, those particular clamps are not the weak link when we do it.


And swaged rope- Because even though it's a half an inch diameter, what you have a 9/16 inch rope there (there's at least one company doing 5/8, but most are for sure 9/16), save for a few specialized items, you will NEVER find hardware that's properly rated for that rope. So you're gonna have to live with that. That's most of the reason I said I'd consider unspooling it and using a sliding hook, is simply that that will allow a suitable bend radius when the hook pulls on the stop, so you need not cut it. On the other hand, I do not disagree with your counterpoint here.


I see that you're up to a fix that might solve two problems... If you've got a winch, that will physically accept a rope with a 2:1 (or better) margin over the winch, on it's lowest wrap, and you can get something on there (without having to carry it out to a shop to get it done)... If you can pull it off, that's gonna be a win on every level.

Jake, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I really like that thimble-clamp thing, I have put one in my shopping cart I think it will be an excellent way to repair my wire rope when it eventually needs it. Here is a screen capture so others can see. I may need to do something so the rope turnback does not foul the sliders that are also on the cable.


I have also spliced loops onto cables like shown in the Utube above. I found it a little tricky to get a thimble into the loop. Following is what was on the end of the cable I have removed from the winch. You can see the thimble has taken a beating.



Here is another photo showing how the sliders work with a logging chain looped around a log. Sometimes I will pull in 1/2 dozen trees at one time with a slider and chain on each log..


So far the only option I have seen that will make use of the swaged knob on the end of the cable is the slider shown in post 9 above (thanks corbiance). This was my original question. I may give this a try if I can find one for 1/2 inch cable. I still think a hook connected to the end of the cable will result in less wear on the cable for stubborn logs that are far away. It seems to me if the cable is wrapped around the log it will have a fairly sharp bend where it then goes thru the choker. I may be wrong about this. I purchased this cable as a spare part from the winch supplier, not sure what it is rated to, it definitely seems more stout than what it is replacing. I am also replacing the clutch and driveshaft U-joints on the winch. I bought the winch used about 20 years ago so it has paid for itself many times over.

I will post an update in a day or 2 with what I build, I was assuming something was commercially available but perhaps not.

 

[Jake M]

I may need to do something so the rope turnback does not foul the sliders that are also on the cable.

How do those fist grip clamps you're using work? Do those themselves foul the sliders? Never tried it, but one or two of those might make a nice transition between the slider and a repair. Used ones with the edges worn down might even work better than a brand new one in that application. I'm guessing that, we don't use anything like your sliding hooks.

Not sure if you know this trick- If you take a small square of 12gauge sheet metal (or whatever), and drive it in between the live and dead ends of the cable, that'll keep your angle grinder honest and you can trim about an eighth of an inch out from where the sheet metal stops, and not accidentally ding the live side whild you're doing it. You really shouldn't cut a turnback flush with a repair or clamp. Not saying it's not done, but you shouldn't. But if that clamp were extra, not being relied upon for any integrety of the cable, only as a stopper? What's it gonna do?

 

[gard]

The fist clamps have worked well for years. they are 2 large clumps of steel connected by nuts and bolts. The nuts and bolts get so worn and rounded over they are difficult to remove with wrenches. They came with the used winch. The turnback does get all broomed out and nasty by the sliders. The sheet metal sounds like a good trick.

 

[Provincial]

If you use a hook on the end of the winch line, you will wear out the line where the hook rides. Loggers use chokers with bells and the "skidder" choker cable has nubs swedged on both ends. To attach these to the main winchline, sliders are placed on the mainline and the choker nubs seat on them. The last slider on the end of the mainline is shaped differently so it doesn't kink the mainline with a side load.

Here is a photo of a set of sliders. The end slider isn't much different from the others, and I can't find a photo on the internet that shows the type I use. It pulls the choker straight off the end of the mainline. Local loggers call it an "end bell."

These are used with a "skidder choker" and the major wear and tear occurs on the choker instead of the mainline. The chokers are relatively inexpensive and the bells can be reused to keep costs down. Here is a photo:

Use cable for the choker that is one size smaller than the mainline and the (cheaper) choker should break before damaging the mainline.

 

[David2011]

Lots of great advice here. All I can contribute is that when I was a young puppy I dealt with several wire rope retailers. I’ve also owned sailboats for half of my life. Contact a wire rope company near you and let them help.

 

[gard]

If you use a hook on the end of the winch line, you will wear out the line where the hook rides. Loggers use chokers with bells and the "skidder" choker cable has nubs swedged on both ends. To attach these to the main winchline, sliders are placed on the mainline and the choker nubs seat on them. The last slider on the end of the mainline is shaped differently so it doesn't kink the mainline with a side load.

Here is a photo of a set of sliders. The end slider isn't much different from the others, and I can't find a photo on the internet that shows the type I use. It pulls the choker straight off the end of the mainline. Local loggers call it an "end bell."

Thanks for that, very interesting to see how you do it. The end bell slider sounds like what what I am looking for but not sure if it exists for the "farm tractor logging" size equipment I have but I will keep looking. I do have one or 2 of the full size sliders and they dwarf the "choker glider" that is designed for 1/4 or 5/16 chain. I have never seen a different design glider for the end. I will have to dig out the full size one but I suspect the nub on my mainline might pass right thru the hole in the full size slider.

I have a bunch of chain chokers in various lengths so not crazy about switching to cable chokers unless there is some advantage to them. I suspect the 1/2 swage mainline I bought might be a little overkill for the size winch I have but I did not do much research other than asking the guy at the shop that sells the winches.