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New Pm 1030v Lathe

Discussion in 'PRECISION-MATTHEWS' started by shooter123456, Jul 29, 2016.

  1. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I tried something I hadn't done on the PM1030v yesterday: Metric Threading. Since discovering the 4 jaw had some really bad runout problems, I had 5 TTS holders that were not going to be usable. To save them, I decided to make them into ER20 holders instead and bore the collet taper on the mill to ensure runout is minimized.

    There was only 1 hiccup with the operation. Since it was metric threading and the leadscrew is imperial, I only engaged the thread lever when the chasing dial was on the 1. Second pass and it was off. Maybe something is wonky or I was wrong about being able to use the thread chasing dial, but after the second pass, I left the lever engaged and just turned the lathe off and reversed it for each pass. The thread was an M25x1.5 and material was 4140.

    Here is that holder:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Double Post.
     
  3. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Triple Post.
     
  4. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    You cannot use the thread dial AT ALL for metric threading on an imperial lead screw, the half nuts must stay constantly engaged. Actually, there is a workaround for that, but will not get into it unless you want it. Is the three jaw accurate enough for what you are doing?
     
  5. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Thank you for the guidance. I must have mixed it up with something else, and it made sense in my head that even if I engage on the same spot, it will enter the thread in the same place. Apparently, thats not so.

    If the workaround is relatively simple and easy to do, I would love to try it, otherwise, I am content stopping and reversing. It takes a little longer but its not a big deal for me.

    Regarding the 3 jaw, it should be plenty accurate. I indicated off the largest diameter which should be concentric with the shank and using a deadblow, I can get it running within .001" or less. As far as I know, the key part with the collet holder is that the taper is concentric, and as long as the threads are close, it won't cause a problem. The taper will be cut will the tool holder installed in the mill, so hopefully, that will lead to almost no run out.
     
  6. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The workaround is, that while you must always leave the half nuts engaged the same way while threading metric on an imperial lead screw, you can disengage them if you are able to put them right back where they were originally. That means more than, say, always engaging the half nuts at number 1. The gearing is not repeating correctly when you have the metric change gears in the system. The spindle and the lead screw have an oddball gear ratio that only repeats after many revolutions of the threading dial. So, if you disengage the half nuts, you must re-engage them exactly where you disconnected them, and on the same revolution of the threading dial. Follow along with this... Engage the half nuts and note the reading. It can be on any line or part way between them, but must go back the same way, so remember it exactly. Make your first pass, disconnect the half nuts, retract the tool one turn, and IMMEDIATELY turn off the lathe. In that amount of time, the threading dial will not have turned one complete revolution. With the tool safely out of the work, start the lathe in reverse, and when your spot on the threading dial comes around in reverse, engage the half nuts again. Let the carriage continue under power back to the start of the thread position and turn the lathe off. Leave the half nuts closed this whole time. Advance the tool for the next cut. Start the spindle again in the forward direction to make the next cut. Lather, rinse, repeat. There is no magic here. We are just cheating a bit to get the tool out of the work safely at the end of the cut, and then closing the half nuts again exactly where we disengaged them. If you lose track of the threading dial rotation doing this, you are lost. It works just fine -- if done correctly. Practice on some scrap until you are happy with how it works and have the muscle memory to repeat it for each pass without messing it up.
     
  7. pstemari

    pstemari H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Note that the procedure isn't much better on a lathe with a metric leadscrew. While all standard inch threads will have an exact count in 16 turns of the leadscrew (== 4" of travel) (and usually much less), the way metric threads are specified is such that you don't get an exact count until you have gone much further and many more turns.

    They do make metric thread chasing dials, but they are much more complicated and you have to wait longer for them to come around to the starting point.

    It's a shame the single point dog clutch on the HLV-H lathes never made its way into general usage. Instant stop, easy reverse, and no threading dial worries.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     
  8. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The relevant part of the video starts at 17:30. This video just came out two days ago, and I just watched it.
     
  9. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I get what you are saying. The method would allow me to disengage the half nuts to stop the carriage long enough to turn the machine off. Then reverse to the same number, engage the lever again, and back it up. I typically run the lathe slow enough and have enough room that I can have my left hand on the power off button and my right hand on the crossfeed. Once I get to the thread relief, I power off and back up in the same motion. It usually stops within half a turn. I have had a good deal of practice with it the past few days threading these holders.
     
  10. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I have a quick update after almost exactly 1 year of ownership of the lathe. Everything still works well and the machine cuts great.

    I had some trouble recently with the finish going to crap and the machine starting to chatter way too soon with relatively light cuts. After taking the carriage apart, I realized I had never adjusted the carriage tension screw (because I didn't know where they are). There are 4 screws on each side, on the bottom of the carriage. Of the 8, 5 of mine were completely loose and the last 3 were barely tensioned. I should have adjusted that a long time ago. After less than 2 minutes of fiddling, it can again take cuts to the point that the motor starts struggling and there is no chatter.

    I also had my power button break off yesterday. After what must have been several thousand button presses, the top part broke off the bottom part. The lathe is still in warranty for another 2 years, so I emailed PM about it and 2 minutes later, they responded asking for the address for them to send a new one.

    [​IMG]

    I also made a negative rake insert to try on it and the 1030v can absolutely handle negative rake tools. This is a screenshot from a video I took with the machine cutting .08" deep, or .160 off the diameter in 12L14 steel. You can see its making a nice chip, no strings, and leaving a nice finish.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Ironken

    Ironken United States Active Member Active Member

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    My switch broke too, I got one off of ebay for about 5 bucks using the numbers on the old switch. Can you give a few more details about the 8 adjusting screws (gibs?)?
     
  12. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I am sure I could have done the same, but I figured I paid a little extra for the PM because of the warranty and service, so I might as well use it. In the past, they have shipped things to me same day and they have never charged for a part or for shipping.

    About the screws. I don't know if you would call them gib screws because they aren't really gibs as far as I know. Maybe someone else here knows better what they would be called. I took some pictures to try to point them out.

    This picture is of the top of the apron looking down. The arrows point to the location of the screws, but the screws come up from the bottom.
    [​IMG]

    It was very difficult to get pictures of the bottom because there is no light and no room to get the camera. This picture shows 2 of the 4 screws on the far side. They were the easier ones to get to.
    [​IMG]

    On the closest side of the apron to the operator, these are the 2 screws on the left side.
    [​IMG]

    On the closest side, to the right, there are 3 screws, but I think one of them is the carriage lock, only 2 of them are adjusted. I think the two that are highlighted are the correct 2.
    [​IMG]

    I don't think they get locked, and they couldn't be snugged up all the way or the apron locked in place. Maybe they are supposed to be shimmed so they can be torqued down and still allow movement without being loose. But just tightening them up made a world of different with the surface finish and chatter issue that popped up.
     
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  13. Ironken

    Ironken United States Active Member Active Member

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    Thank you Shooter for taking the time to clearly show me what you did. I'm going to go take a look at mine now. This is good to know.
     
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  14. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Another shoutout to PM customer service. When the power button broke, they had a new one to me in 2 days. It was easy to replace.

    I think I now have my first major failure on the machine. During a relatively heavy cut, one of the fuses literally exploded in the machine. It destroyed the fuse holder and melted through the plastic nut securing it.

    For reference, the cut was .08" deep (.16" off the diameter) in a 1.25" piece of 1018 steel, cutting .005"/rev and 500 RPM. An online calculator estimates that this particular cut used about .75 HP.

    Here is a picture of the fuse holder on the machine. It is in the back panel, not the front one. You can see the melted plastic nut on it. It had to be cut off to remove.
    [​IMG]

    Here is the inside of the fuse holder. When I took it off, it just fell apart. The threaded cap with the metal insert on top melted completely.
    [​IMG]

    It was in the middle of this cut when it failed. Its a pretty deep cut for this particular machine, but it creates a fantastic chip and just drops them right below, no flinging. Also, the finish is pretty great especially considering it was a heavy roughing pass using a 90 cent chinese insert and a homemade 12L14 tool holder.
    [​IMG]

    I cant tell you how much more enjoyable turning is when the chips are well controlled. Its much easier and nicer to cut with the chips just dropping below instead of being chucked at you or creating really long strings. The machine was cleaned completely before I started. All of those chips were made in about 5 minutes.
    [​IMG]

    While I was searching for the part that failed, I took the front cover off and got a look inside the head casting. I have never seen a picture of that before so I decided to post it. Its not as thick as I thought it would be given how rigid and heavy the machine is. I also didn't realize that the part directly adjacent to the spindle nose is the head casting. I thought there was a piece of sheet metal covering it. They certainly do a better job cleaning up the casting on the outside than they do the inside. I also noticed that there is paint on the spindle shaft. I didn't expect that. I figured the paint would have been applied before the spindle was installed. Also, given how rigid the machine is, I figured the screws securing the head to the bed would be much bigger.
    [​IMG]

    Here is a closer look.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. tweinke

    tweinke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Bummer on the fuse holder! Sure cant beat the customer service though, like you said. I wonder if the failure of the fuse holder was due to a poor connection at the fuse holder.
     
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  16. Howard70

    Howard70 United States Iron Registered Member

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    I'm definitely not an expert, but that fuse looks like it didn't "blow" on the strip that usually burns through. Rather it appears that the connection between the fuse and the holder simply got hot enough to burn the surrounding material. I wonder if that fuse wasn't effectively too "high"? It might have been rated to give at 10 amps, but actually held through 15 or 20 amps which then allowed the holder & wiring to melt?

    Thanks for the detailed accounts of your experiences with the lathe. I'm new at all this & reading detailed accounts like yours sure helps me understand which machines might be appropriate for my use.

    Howard
     
  17. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I don't think the fuse blew the way it was supposed to either. I have blown fuses on machines plenty of times and you can usually hear a pop or a crack when it stops. This time, all I heard was the power relay stopping (same click you hear when you hit the start/stop buttons). It was a weird failure for sure and several things don't entirely add up. The fuse is a 15 amp fuse and its connected to a 15 amp residential circuit. That circuit is also powering several other things such as the light over the lathe, the outside sprinkler system, the house internet, and a computer, and a fan. I do trip the circuit breaker fairly regularly but if the fuse blew, I can't see how the circuit breaker wouldn't have been tripped sooner.

    I also calculated the force required for the cut I was doing and its estimated at .5-.8 HP which means the fuse shouldn't have had more than 750 watts going through it. A 15 amp 250v fuse should be able to manage 3,750 watts without burning up.

    So it was a failure, the fuse or fuse holder did not function properly. Both have been replaced though and the machine is back up and running.

    I am glad this post has been helpful for you. I try to update it fairly regularly because when I was shopping for it, there were lots of questions I couldn't really answer about these machines without having already owned several machines. Questions like: What kind of cuts can the machine handle, how reliable can I expect them to be, what kind of accuracy can I expect from it, what kind of features do I really want and what features would I never use? I hoped this would help some people decide if this lathe is what they are looking for. I am happy to answer any specific questions if you have them.
     
  18. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Lathe is back up! Only down for a day this time. I got an inline fuse holder and fuses for $8 at a local auto parts store and connected it in about 5 minutes.

    Here is the part I was working on when it broke. Its a spindle for a micro lathe I am going to build specifically for pumping out custom screws and bolts for me. That is a AAA battery for scale. The bearings are both a light press fit and the thread on the back is 7.25"x20 TPI for a lock nut.
    [​IMG]
     
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