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New Pm 1030v Lathe

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shooter123456

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#91
I tried something I hadn't done on the PM1030v yesterday: Metric Threading. Since discovering the 4 jaw had some really bad runout problems, I had 5 TTS holders that were not going to be usable. To save them, I decided to make them into ER20 holders instead and bore the collet taper on the mill to ensure runout is minimized.

There was only 1 hiccup with the operation. Since it was metric threading and the leadscrew is imperial, I only engaged the thread lever when the chasing dial was on the 1. Second pass and it was off. Maybe something is wonky or I was wrong about being able to use the thread chasing dial, but after the second pass, I left the lever engaged and just turned the lathe off and reversed it for each pass. The thread was an M25x1.5 and material was 4140.

Here is that holder:
 

Bob Korves

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#94
I tried something I hadn't done on the PM1030v yesterday: Metric Threading. Since discovering the 4 jaw had some really bad runout problems, I had 5 TTS holders that were not going to be usable. To save them, I decided to make them into ER20 holders instead and bore the collet taper on the mill to ensure runout is minimized.

There was only 1 hiccup with the operation. Since it was metric threading and the leadscrew is imperial, I only engaged the thread lever when the chasing dial was on the 1. Second pass and it was off. Maybe something is wonky or I was wrong about being able to use the thread chasing dial, but after the second pass, I left the lever engaged and just turned the lathe off and reversed it for each pass. The thread was an M25x1.5 and material was 4140.

Here is that holder:
You cannot use the thread dial AT ALL for metric threading on an imperial lead screw, the half nuts must stay constantly engaged. Actually, there is a workaround for that, but will not get into it unless you want it. Is the three jaw accurate enough for what you are doing?
 

shooter123456

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#95
You cannot use the thread dial AT ALL for metric threading on an imperial lead screw, the half nuts must stay constantly engaged. Actually, there is a workaround for that, but will not get into it unless you want it. Is the three jaw accurate enough for what you are doing?
Thank you for the guidance. I must have mixed it up with something else, and it made sense in my head that even if I engage on the same spot, it will enter the thread in the same place. Apparently, thats not so.

If the workaround is relatively simple and easy to do, I would love to try it, otherwise, I am content stopping and reversing. It takes a little longer but its not a big deal for me.

Regarding the 3 jaw, it should be plenty accurate. I indicated off the largest diameter which should be concentric with the shank and using a deadblow, I can get it running within .001" or less. As far as I know, the key part with the collet holder is that the taper is concentric, and as long as the threads are close, it won't cause a problem. The taper will be cut will the tool holder installed in the mill, so hopefully, that will lead to almost no run out.
 

Bob Korves

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#96
The workaround is, that while you must always leave the half nuts engaged the same way while threading metric on an imperial lead screw, you can disengage them if you are able to put them right back where they were originally. That means more than, say, always engaging the half nuts at number 1. The gearing is not repeating correctly when you have the metric change gears in the system. The spindle and the lead screw have an oddball gear ratio that only repeats after many revolutions of the threading dial. So, if you disengage the half nuts, you must re-engage them exactly where you disconnected them, and on the same revolution of the threading dial. Follow along with this... Engage the half nuts and note the reading. It can be on any line or part way between them, but must go back the same way, so remember it exactly. Make your first pass, disconnect the half nuts, retract the tool one turn, and IMMEDIATELY turn off the lathe. In that amount of time, the threading dial will not have turned one complete revolution. With the tool safely out of the work, start the lathe in reverse, and when your spot on the threading dial comes around in reverse, engage the half nuts again. Let the carriage continue under power back to the start of the thread position and turn the lathe off. Leave the half nuts closed this whole time. Advance the tool for the next cut. Start the spindle again in the forward direction to make the next cut. Lather, rinse, repeat. There is no magic here. We are just cheating a bit to get the tool out of the work safely at the end of the cut, and then closing the half nuts again exactly where we disengaged them. If you lose track of the threading dial rotation doing this, you are lost. It works just fine -- if done correctly. Practice on some scrap until you are happy with how it works and have the muscle memory to repeat it for each pass without messing it up.
 

pstemari

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#97
Note that the procedure isn't much better on a lathe with a metric leadscrew. While all standard inch threads will have an exact count in 16 turns of the leadscrew (== 4" of travel) (and usually much less), the way metric threads are specified is such that you don't get an exact count until you have gone much further and many more turns.

They do make metric thread chasing dials, but they are much more complicated and you have to wait longer for them to come around to the starting point.

It's a shame the single point dog clutch on the HLV-H lathes never made its way into general usage. Instant stop, easy reverse, and no threading dial worries.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

Bob Korves

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#98
The relevant part of the video starts at 17:30. This video just came out two days ago, and I just watched it.
 

shooter123456

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#99
The workaround is, that while you must always leave the half nuts engaged the same way while threading metric on an imperial lead screw, you can disengage them if you are able to put them right back where they were originally. That means more than, say, always engaging the half nuts at number 1. The gearing is not repeating correctly when you have the metric change gears in the system. The spindle and the lead screw have an oddball gear ratio that only repeats after many revolutions of the threading dial. So, if you disengage the half nuts, you must re-engage them exactly where you disconnected them, and on the same revolution of the threading dial. Follow along with this... Engage the half nuts and note the reading. It can be on any line or part way between them, but must go back the same way, so remember it exactly. Make your first pass, disconnect the half nuts, retract the tool one turn, and IMMEDIATELY turn off the lathe. In that amount of time, the threading dial will not have turned one complete revolution. With the tool safely out of the work, start the lathe in reverse, and when your spot on the threading dial comes around in reverse, engage the half nuts again. Let the carriage continue under power back to the start of the thread position and turn the lathe off. Leave the half nuts closed this whole time. Advance the tool for the next cut. Start the spindle again in the forward direction to make the next cut. Lather, rinse, repeat. There is no magic here. We are just cheating a bit to get the tool out of the work safely at the end of the cut, and then closing the half nuts again exactly where we disengaged them. If you lose track of the threading dial rotation doing this, you are lost. It works just fine -- if done correctly. Practice on some scrap until you are happy with how it works and have the muscle memory to repeat it for each pass without messing it up.
I get what you are saying. The method would allow me to disengage the half nuts to stop the carriage long enough to turn the machine off. Then reverse to the same number, engage the lever again, and back it up. I typically run the lathe slow enough and have enough room that I can have my left hand on the power off button and my right hand on the crossfeed. Once I get to the thread relief, I power off and back up in the same motion. It usually stops within half a turn. I have had a good deal of practice with it the past few days threading these holders.
 

shooter123456

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I have a quick update after almost exactly 1 year of ownership of the lathe. Everything still works well and the machine cuts great.

I had some trouble recently with the finish going to crap and the machine starting to chatter way too soon with relatively light cuts. After taking the carriage apart, I realized I had never adjusted the carriage tension screw (because I didn't know where they are). There are 4 screws on each side, on the bottom of the carriage. Of the 8, 5 of mine were completely loose and the last 3 were barely tensioned. I should have adjusted that a long time ago. After less than 2 minutes of fiddling, it can again take cuts to the point that the motor starts struggling and there is no chatter.

I also had my power button break off yesterday. After what must have been several thousand button presses, the top part broke off the bottom part. The lathe is still in warranty for another 2 years, so I emailed PM about it and 2 minutes later, they responded asking for the address for them to send a new one.



I also made a negative rake insert to try on it and the 1030v can absolutely handle negative rake tools. This is a screenshot from a video I took with the machine cutting .08" deep, or .160 off the diameter in 12L14 steel. You can see its making a nice chip, no strings, and leaving a nice finish.
 

Ironken

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I have a quick update after almost exactly 1 year of ownership of the lathe. Everything still works well and the machine cuts great.

I had some trouble recently with the finish going to crap and the machine starting to chatter way too soon with relatively light cuts. After taking the carriage apart, I realized I had never adjusted the carriage tension screw (because I didn't know where they are). There are 4 screws on each side, on the bottom of the carriage. Of the 8, 5 of mine were completely loose and the last 3 were barely tensioned. I should have adjusted that a long time ago. After less than 2 minutes of fiddling, it can again take cuts to the point that the motor starts struggling and there is no chatter.

I also had my power button break off yesterday. After what must have been several thousand button presses, the top part broke off the bottom part. The lathe is still in warranty for another 2 years, so I emailed PM about it and 2 minutes later, they responded asking for the address for them to send a new one.



I also made a negative rake insert to try on it and the 1030v can absolutely handle negative rake tools. This is a screenshot from a video I took with the machine cutting .08" deep, or .160 off the diameter in 12L14 steel. You can see its making a nice chip, no strings, and leaving a nice finish.
My switch broke too, I got one off of ebay for about 5 bucks using the numbers on the old switch. Can you give a few more details about the 8 adjusting screws (gibs?)?
 

shooter123456

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My switch broke too, I got one off of ebay for about 5 bucks using the numbers on the old switch. Can you give a few more details about the 8 adjusting screws (gibs?)?
I am sure I could have done the same, but I figured I paid a little extra for the PM because of the warranty and service, so I might as well use it. In the past, they have shipped things to me same day and they have never charged for a part or for shipping.

About the screws. I don't know if you would call them gib screws because they aren't really gibs as far as I know. Maybe someone else here knows better what they would be called. I took some pictures to try to point them out.

This picture is of the top of the apron looking down. The arrows point to the location of the screws, but the screws come up from the bottom.


It was very difficult to get pictures of the bottom because there is no light and no room to get the camera. This picture shows 2 of the 4 screws on the far side. They were the easier ones to get to.


On the closest side of the apron to the operator, these are the 2 screws on the left side.


On the closest side, to the right, there are 3 screws, but I think one of them is the carriage lock, only 2 of them are adjusted. I think the two that are highlighted are the correct 2.


I don't think they get locked, and they couldn't be snugged up all the way or the apron locked in place. Maybe they are supposed to be shimmed so they can be torqued down and still allow movement without being loose. But just tightening them up made a world of different with the surface finish and chatter issue that popped up.
 

Ironken

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Thank you Shooter for taking the time to clearly show me what you did. I'm going to go take a look at mine now. This is good to know.
 

shooter123456

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Another shoutout to PM customer service. When the power button broke, they had a new one to me in 2 days. It was easy to replace.

I think I now have my first major failure on the machine. During a relatively heavy cut, one of the fuses literally exploded in the machine. It destroyed the fuse holder and melted through the plastic nut securing it.

For reference, the cut was .08" deep (.16" off the diameter) in a 1.25" piece of 1018 steel, cutting .005"/rev and 500 RPM. An online calculator estimates that this particular cut used about .75 HP.

Here is a picture of the fuse holder on the machine. It is in the back panel, not the front one. You can see the melted plastic nut on it. It had to be cut off to remove.


Here is the inside of the fuse holder. When I took it off, it just fell apart. The threaded cap with the metal insert on top melted completely.


It was in the middle of this cut when it failed. Its a pretty deep cut for this particular machine, but it creates a fantastic chip and just drops them right below, no flinging. Also, the finish is pretty great especially considering it was a heavy roughing pass using a 90 cent chinese insert and a homemade 12L14 tool holder.


I cant tell you how much more enjoyable turning is when the chips are well controlled. Its much easier and nicer to cut with the chips just dropping below instead of being chucked at you or creating really long strings. The machine was cleaned completely before I started. All of those chips were made in about 5 minutes.


While I was searching for the part that failed, I took the front cover off and got a look inside the head casting. I have never seen a picture of that before so I decided to post it. Its not as thick as I thought it would be given how rigid and heavy the machine is. I also didn't realize that the part directly adjacent to the spindle nose is the head casting. I thought there was a piece of sheet metal covering it. They certainly do a better job cleaning up the casting on the outside than they do the inside. I also noticed that there is paint on the spindle shaft. I didn't expect that. I figured the paint would have been applied before the spindle was installed. Also, given how rigid the machine is, I figured the screws securing the head to the bed would be much bigger.


Here is a closer look.
 

Howard70

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I'm definitely not an expert, but that fuse looks like it didn't "blow" on the strip that usually burns through. Rather it appears that the connection between the fuse and the holder simply got hot enough to burn the surrounding material. I wonder if that fuse wasn't effectively too "high"? It might have been rated to give at 10 amps, but actually held through 15 or 20 amps which then allowed the holder & wiring to melt?

Thanks for the detailed accounts of your experiences with the lathe. I'm new at all this & reading detailed accounts like yours sure helps me understand which machines might be appropriate for my use.

Howard
 

shooter123456

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I'm definitely not an expert, but that fuse looks like it didn't "blow" on the strip that usually burns through. Rather it appears that the connection between the fuse and the holder simply got hot enough to burn the surrounding material. I wonder if that fuse wasn't effectively too "high"? It might have been rated to give at 10 amps, but actually held through 15 or 20 amps which then allowed the holder & wiring to melt?

Thanks for the detailed accounts of your experiences with the lathe. I'm new at all this & reading detailed accounts like yours sure helps me understand which machines might be appropriate for my use.

Howard
I don't think the fuse blew the way it was supposed to either. I have blown fuses on machines plenty of times and you can usually hear a pop or a crack when it stops. This time, all I heard was the power relay stopping (same click you hear when you hit the start/stop buttons). It was a weird failure for sure and several things don't entirely add up. The fuse is a 15 amp fuse and its connected to a 15 amp residential circuit. That circuit is also powering several other things such as the light over the lathe, the outside sprinkler system, the house internet, and a computer, and a fan. I do trip the circuit breaker fairly regularly but if the fuse blew, I can't see how the circuit breaker wouldn't have been tripped sooner.

I also calculated the force required for the cut I was doing and its estimated at .5-.8 HP which means the fuse shouldn't have had more than 750 watts going through it. A 15 amp 250v fuse should be able to manage 3,750 watts without burning up.

So it was a failure, the fuse or fuse holder did not function properly. Both have been replaced though and the machine is back up and running.

I am glad this post has been helpful for you. I try to update it fairly regularly because when I was shopping for it, there were lots of questions I couldn't really answer about these machines without having already owned several machines. Questions like: What kind of cuts can the machine handle, how reliable can I expect them to be, what kind of accuracy can I expect from it, what kind of features do I really want and what features would I never use? I hoped this would help some people decide if this lathe is what they are looking for. I am happy to answer any specific questions if you have them.
 

shooter123456

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Lathe is back up! Only down for a day this time. I got an inline fuse holder and fuses for $8 at a local auto parts store and connected it in about 5 minutes.

Here is the part I was working on when it broke. Its a spindle for a micro lathe I am going to build specifically for pumping out custom screws and bolts for me. That is a AAA battery for scale. The bearings are both a light press fit and the thread on the back is 7.25"x20 TPI for a lock nut.
 

Z2V

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Shooter, after seeing all you've done with this lathe I ordered one for myself today. I expect to have it next week.
Thanks for sharing your experience with this machine.
Your fathers chess set it awesome BTW, great job!
 

shooter123456

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Shooter, after seeing all you've done with this lathe I ordered one for myself today. I expect to have it next week.
Thanks for sharing your experience with this machine.
Your fathers chess set it awesome BTW, great job!
Maybe its time I start charging PM commission to keep this thread going. :)

I am glad I was able to help you reach your decision. PM makes a great product and I have been very happy with mine.

Thank you for the compliment on my dads chess set. Unfortunately that project has been stalled for a while since I don't have the equipment I need to make the knights. I need a 4th axis on my mill for that...

Stay tuned, I have some big projects planned with the lathe soon. Among them:
-Acme lead screws and nuts for the micro lathe I am building
-An ER32 collet chuck for the lathe
-A custom collet system similar to a 2C collet system for the micro lathe
-A BT20 or BT25 spindle for a future milling machine
-Rotary hex broaching
-An electronic lead screw

Best of luck with your new machine. Let me know if you have any questions or there is anything I can help with when you get it.
 

Z2V

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I'm sure you will figure out finishing the chess set.
I'll be watching
 

shooter123456

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Shooter -

Could you give a PM1030V noob a quick synopsis of threading on this machine?
Sure thing. The big parts are:

1. Change gear set up
2. Tool Set Up
3. Use of the thread dial
4. Actual threading operation

I will take this from the point that you know what thread you want to cut, the stock is secured in the chuck and it is turned to the correct diameter.

Change Gear Set Up

First up is setting up your change gears. This will make sure that the carriage (part that moves while the machine is cutting) advances the correct amount while the spindle is turning so that the thread is cut. Decide your thread pitch (threads per inch) and locate that pitch on the chart on the change gear cover on the left side of the lathe. It will give you an arrangement of gears to get the right ratio. Lets say you want to do 24 TPI. The chart tells you to use "H-55, 40-60, 80-H". I am not exactly sure what the H is supposed to stand for, but you use a spacer in that case. That tells you that when you change the gears, the bottom one will be a spacer then the 80 tooth gear, then above that you will use the 40 and 60 tooth gear (40 tooth engages the 80 tooth), then the top gear set that will mesh with the spindle gear is a spacer then the 55 tooth gear. When you are putting the gears onto the little keyed bushing that goes inside them, be careful and dont force them in. They are made out of some very soft and easily deformed metal. If they take more than a light press with your thumb to slide in, take a file to your gear and open it up slightly wherever it is sticking. If you force it, it will deform and then they won't spin. When you install the gears onto the machine, take a piece of paper and put it between the gears while you mesh them together. Once the paper is crushed between the teeth, tighten the gear in and turn the gears to slide the paper out. That makes sure the spacing between them is good. Make sure you set the gear knob on the gear box to the right setting (A, B, or C). That's it for the gears. I usually spin the chuck with my hand a few times just to make sure everything is spinning right.

Tool Set Up

Now that you have your change gears set up, its time to set up your tool. First thing to do is set the compound. There are 2 bolts right above the base that you will loosen to rotate it. You want to set it to about 29.5 degrees. It doesn't need to be perfect, but do your best to get close. This will make sure the tool is cutting on one side of the thread instead of both sides. This will cut the cutting force in half and make it much easier on the machine (think turning vs parting or using a form tool). Use a fishtail gage to grind a HSS tool to the right shape. You want to get it as close as you can here. You can try using the carbide triangles or threading inserts, but I never had much luck with those. It goes better with HSS. Make sure the tool is sharp and the cutting edge is touched up on a stone. Also give the nose a slight radius. Also use the fishtail gage to make sure the tool is perpendicular to the work. That part is important too. Once the compound is set to 29.5 degrees and the tool is squared up to the work, you are ready to move on.

Thread Dial

One of the things that always tripped me up about threading was using the thread dial. It is used to make sure the half nuts are engaged in the same place on the lead screw so that the tool enters the cut in the same place each time. When threading 24 TPI, you can engage the half nuts on 1, 2, 3, or 4. There is a chart that tells you which numbers you can use for each pitch. If you don't want to learn about that, just pick one number and use that number each time. **Note, if you are doing a metric thread, you can't use the thread dial. Don't disengage the half nuts at all during the cutting operation.**

Threading Operation

Once you are all set up and know how to use the thread dial, its time to thread. First, set the compound dial to zero. Then turn on the lathe and touch off the tool. Zero the cross slide. I usually put layout dye on the part to be threaded and use a parting tool to put a thread relief at the end of the thread. If you don't know what that is, its a little slot put at the end of the thread to give you a place to stop the tool. I usually do mine 5ish thousandths deeper than the thread should be. Ok, now its time to take your first pass. First pass is a "scratch pass". I usually feed in .001", turn the lathe down to about 100 RPM, and engage the thread lever. The thread lever is the big one in the bottom right of the carriage. The one up and to the left of that is for the power feed and cross feed. Once it is engaged, watch the cut and try to use your right hand to disengage it at the end of the cut and your left hand to retract the cross slide. Run the carriage back to the starting position and turn the lathe off. I use a thread gage now to double check that the pitch I have is right. If it is right, run the cross slide back to zero, use the compound to feed in between .003" and .007" depending on material and how confident you are. Repeat this until the thread is cut. Every 3 or 4 passes I usually do a spring pass where I do a cut without feeding any deeper. There is a "correct" way to know when your thread is done, but I don't have the right stuff to do that so I do it like this. If I have the part it will be threading into, once it threads on, it is done. If I don't have that part, once there is no more blue on the top of the threads (or very little blue), the thread profile is done.

I think that about covers it. Does that help?
 

BellyUpFish

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I'd say that sums it up incredibly well. I've printing the "Shooters Guide to Threading" out and it'll be in my filing cabinet, next to my lathe.I really appreciate it.

I'm planning on YouTube binging tonight on some threading videos, but your comments really put it all into perspective.

Now I guess it's just a matter or giving it a shot.

Thanks again.
 

shooter123456

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I'd say that sums it up incredibly well. I've printing the "Shooters Guide to Threading" out and it'll be in my filing cabinet, next to my lathe.I really appreciate it.

I'm planning on YouTube binging tonight on some threading videos, but your comments really put it all into perspective.

Now I guess it's just a matter or giving it a shot.

Thanks again.
Im happy I was able to help. I know it is intimidating at first. When I first had my 7x12 lathe, I didn't think I would ever be able to cut a decent thread. I think it took me 5 tries to get it right (most mistakes wouldn't have happened with the 1030v) but after the next 5 threads, it was as easy as any other lathe operation. It isn't nearly as hard as it looks once you have done it a few times. Good luck!
 

Bob Korves

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For your first threading sessions it is useful to do dry runs. Set everything up, and then move the carriage far away from the work. Practice engaging the half nuts at the right spot(s) on the dial, and it is not near the number, it is in the same spot every time. It might be a little to the left or right of the number, or dead in the center, but once you make a cut, see the same picture every time. You can engage the half nuts slightly early and the handle will stop half way until the screw and half nuts finish lining up, and will then drop in at the correct spot. After you have practiced cutting air for a while, and you feel like you have the correct muscle memory, then try it well away from the work, learning the timing of releasing the half nuts at the desired spot and backing out the cross slide. Finally, go for it for real. Start with the tool well to the right of the work until you are very comfortable threading. If something goes wrong, like missing the correct threading dial engagement, just disengage the half nuts and start over. If you start too close to the work, the work can be ruined by the time you stop the tool. Lots of margins and slow spindle speed at first, give yourself all the time you need to not mess up. Speed will come with time, practice, and experience.
 

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Good description related to threading. My 1030 has served me well for two years, my jobs now require a bigger machine but until that the 1030 was a good choice. I would like to keep both but room dictates one needs to go. Now just need to find a local needing a good smaller lathe. I'm sure the average home shop would be pleased with one.
 

BellyUpFish

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Well, I've threaded..

I didn't change the gears, I just set everything up and practiced threading.

My threads, who knows what pitch, I think are too tight, as it gets deeper into the cut, it's like it's turning the threads off the work.

I also only have a carbide insert, I need to try some HSS bits, but I need to pick up a jig for grinding the threading tool.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

shooter123456

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Well, I've threaded..

I didn't change the gears, I just set everything up and practiced threading.

My threads, who knows what pitch, I think are too tight, as it gets deeper into the cut, it's like it's turning the threads off the work.

I also only have a carbide insert, I need to try some HSS bits, but I need to pick up a jig for grinding the threading tool.





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For some reason, your picture shows up in the email alert I got and the reply quote, but I get a red X in the actual thread.

Looks like you had a good practice run. If you didn't change the gears and just used the feed gears, you will have a very very fine pitch thread which looks like what I am seeing. I counted roughly 40 TPI, which means the max thread depth is only .016". To get those to form well, you would probably need a sharper tool. The threading carbide inserts usually specify what range of thread they are meant for. They usually have a bit of a radius on the nose and larger inserts have too much of a radius to do fine threads.

But they actually look like threads which is a good start. My first go, if I showed you what I ended up with and told you I was threading it, you would think I was doing it with a chainsaw after 10 beers.

Is that a chip guard you have at the bottom there? If so, I would love some details on it.
 
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