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New Pm 1030v Lathe

Discussion in 'PRECISION-MATTHEWS' started by shooter123456, Jul 29, 2016.

  1. GA Gyro

    GA Gyro H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    And this is what makes THIS forum such a great place...

    Folks jump in and help!!!

    IMO one is not gonna get a perfect machine...
    Even a Mercedes or a Lexus or a Bimmer is gonna go into the shop a few times when new...
    And lets not get started on how ridiculous maintenance is on those money pits.

    To be able to do the repairs on ones machines... and have all this free help, along with customer service from the supplier...

    Sounds like a Win-Win to me!

    Side note: I have been a MOD at a few other forums...
    This one is by far the friendliest and most helpful place... :)
     
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  2. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I was able to swap the gears and get a thread turned yesterday. I am communicating with Matt to get that all worked out. I didn't take a picture of the final thread and I will be re-doing this part because the concentricity wasn't good enough for me.

    Its coming along, I might need to file the gears a bit to get the bushings to fit well but there is plenty of time for that. I played with the gears and bushings and found that most of the gears I use (I mostly just need the turning gears and gears for 24 TPI threading) can fit well with at least one of the bushings. Maybe I need to mark the bushings to match the gears so I know which ones will fit where.

    Once I get this thing figured out, I will make the rest of the suppressor. I attached a model if anyone is interested in seeing that.

    Brake with start of thread.
    ijQi2jl.jpg
    Model.
    TiU1Yc5.png
    Model.
    H4d3tKM.png

    I appreciate the input from everyone here. I tried everything proposed and I think removing a burr (That may or may not have been there...) helped.
     
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  3. MSD0

    MSD0 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Glad it's working out for you. I think you have a nice machine by the the finish on that part.
     
  4. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I was very pleased with the finish. That was at about 800 rpm with the finest feed it has and an indexable carbide tool. Thats 303 stainless. When I was rough cutting, it took plunge cuts very well and did a great job removing material quickly.
     
  5. 3dshooter80

    3dshooter80 United States Master of Metal Malpractice Active Member

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    I think you are headed in the right direction now. I had to do some polishing of the gear bores to get them to fit on the couplers a bit easier. I also had to do a small bit of polishing to the square headed shafts to get them to spin better inside of the couplers. One of my first projects was to machine an extra square headed shaft and recessed washer as well as a couple of extra keyed spacers. I am close by you. I work over in Apex and actually cover the whole state for my job. If you still have any questions, hit me up. I pm'd you my phone number. I'm always glad to help. I have a good friend in the Smithfield area that also has a PM 1127VF-LB lathe and PM -727 mill just like me. We are both always willing to help.

    Regarding the suppressor, that looks to be essentially a k-baffle design. From what I have read, those are pretty effective relative to how difficult they are to make. I have read about some guys making monocore type suppressors and they appear to be a difficult project.
     
  6. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Matt has sent me a few extra parts to try. I will probably have to polish everything up and fit some of the gears to the couplers. They are just incredibly tight at the moment.

    The supressor just has simple 60 degree cone baffles. I made one with stepped baffles already and the guys over at silencertalk said that 60 degree cones are the lightest and strongest baffle shape and they are supposed to suppress subsonic 300 blk really well. The stepped baffles only start to shine at the high pressures.
     
  7. MSD0

    MSD0 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Just curious on how the baffles are made?
     
  8. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Im not sure how I will do it on this machine. Likely I will take a piece of 1.375" SS rod, turn it to fit inside the tube, then drill out the bore undersized, use a boring bar with the compound set a 30 degrees (or 60 depending on how you like to reference your angles) to bore out the inside, then use a cut off tool to slot it at the end of the baffle, use a turning tool at 60 degrees again and shape the outside, then hopefully drill the bore to the full size and it should pop right off and only need a little clean up.
     
  9. Subwayrocket

    Subwayrocket United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Think about everyone you know who is a mechanic , welder , fabricator or has some sort of shop . Someone probably has one they'd loan you. My buddy who owns the local scrap yard loaned me his , just had to trailer it over . Get good straps and it goes pretty easy. Look around for a loaner engine hoist ....or you could buy one at Harbor Freight ...use it once , then sell it assembled in like new cond for a little less than you paid . Having a mill has caused me to now want a lathe ...I was looking at that 1030 , Nice machine , congrats !
     
  10. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Update and a few things I have learned that most of you probably know but if someone gets the machine later and is looking for info, they might see this.

    First off, I spoke with Matt and he sent me some new parts for the change gears. He sent 2 of the couplers, 4 or 5 of the square headed bolts, 5 clips, and the brass oiling inserts. I spent an hour or two with the change gears, the bolts, and the clips to get everything fitting better. I spun some sandpaper in a hand drill and sanded out the insides of the gears until the couplers fit snug, but not so tight they had to be tapped into place and not so loose the couplers would just fall out. I also polished the square headed bolts up to 1000 grit sand paper so they would turn as resistance free as possible inside the couplers. Last a filed down the backs of 2 of the clips so they wouldn't catch and start tightening down. Now changing gears is pretty seamless. It takes me about 5 minutes from turning the part to diameter to taking the first threading pass.

    Still having an issue with the leaking gear box but we are trouble shooting and that will be resolved at some point.

    A few things for new people/people considering the 1030V:

    Changing the chucks is beyond easy. There are 3 nuts on screws attached to the back of the chuck faceplate. To change the chuck, you loosen those 3 nuts, rotate the plate behind the spindle face, and pull the chuck through. I didn't realize thats what the rotating plate was for, the first few times I took the bolts off all the way. Don't do that, use that rotating plate.

    To change the gears, a few things to note:

    -There is a circuit breaker (or something...) on the rear upper left corner of the change gear cover to make sure the machine doesn't run without the cover on. When you take the cover off, it will feel like there might be a hinge back there. Its not a hinge, pull straight out away from the machine.
    -The couplers are made of a pretty weak cast metal. No idea what it is, but if you force it into the change gear, it will deform and jam up the nut that it has to rotate on.
    -The change gear chart will tell you which gears need to be attached to each other and which order they should go. The bottom most one goes directly onto the lead screw, then the two above it go on the quadrant with the last one interacting with the spindle gear. On the chart, the gears next to each other go on the same coupler. If there is an H there, put one of the spacers on instead of a gear.
    -When you tighten the quadrant back up, make sure the gears are spaced apart from each other so they don't rub on each other and grind.

    A few things PMs site doesn't mention but are worth noting:
    -Those little brass circles you see all over the machine are oilers. Put a shot of oil in each one and it will lubricate the machine while you use it.
    -The handle you use to move the apron has graduated markings on it. That makes stuff much easier and that wasn't there on my HF lathe.
    -The tailstock uses a lever to lock it in place. I thought I would be using a wrench to lock and unlock it but that lever is fantastic.
    -The lathe has plenty of power to cut threads at its lowest speed setting which is 54 rpm on my machine. Its so slow I find myself speeding it up to get to the next number on the thread dial, but then I have forever to stop the thread at the end (for reference, the 24 tpi thread for .5" I cut yesterday took a little over 12 seconds to traverse the entire thing.) This makes threading way less nerve wracking because you can see everything thats happening and have lots of time to react at the end of the thread.

    I have a few more pictures for anyone interested. The finish on one of the parts was so great I wanted to leave it how it was and not use it. But alas I have to use it, can't make multiples with suppressor parts. I also marred up the outsides getting them apart. Heres to hoping that buffs out. As a side note, the 3 jaw is very accurate. More than accurate enough for the stuff I am working on. Chucking 1.5" steel rod in the 3 jaw it was .004" out. After facing off, drilling, boring, threading, and tapering, then machining the brake and threading the mount onto the brake, the mount was turning .003" off center. This is fine because the parts that need perfect concentricity (The threads, the thread shoulder, the face of the mount, and the rear taper) were machined in set ups that ensured perfect concentricity (or as close as I can measure with a .001" DI)

    Suppressor mount
    ljUDyvS.jpg

    Muzzle brake and mount threading
    hYKIITu.jpg

    Fit of the two parts
    ZRyXlph.jpg
     
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  11. MSD0

    MSD0 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Parts look really good. Glad your getting the machine sorted out. I had some trouble with the change gears on my PM1127. On one of the gears, the keyed bushing had to be pressed out about .010" to keep the clip from rubbing on the face of the gear. I might make new pins and use a c-clip and shims in the future.
     
  12. NoobCanuk

    NoobCanuk Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Wow, that looks amazing. I have just recently gotten time to play with my 1030v. I think I'm having the same problems you were having with changing gears. I did learn to figure out the order to stick the gears together for different threads but find the couplers are extremely tight and every time I changed gears had to use a punch to get it out. I will likely copy what you did and try some fine grit sandpaper to file them down a tiny bit and clean up the gears as well (I actually broke one coupler it was so tight trying to get it to go).

    But glad you figured it out and it looks like you are off and running now. I'd love to see pics of your suppressor build and see how it turns out. Being in Canada those things are big time illegal so I can only dream of having one up here (but that doesn't stop me from watching you guys at work and seeing how they turn out). One day I may travel with my wife and check them out in a country that allows them but until that day I have to settle on hearing your guys stories. :D
     
  13. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I am finding more and more that the couplers are so fragile that anything more than light gentle pressure into the gears will cause them to deform. I will probably just buy a few extra gears for the threads I use most (actually I don't think I have ever done anything but 24tpi) or rig up a stepper motor to use instead so I don't need to change gears.

    Regarding the suppressor, I will be sure to post some pictures when I am done. I have the end caps and 4 baffles finished. I just need to make 4 more baffles and thread the tube. Hopefully that will be finished up in the next week or two.
     
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  14. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I took apart the cross slide and compound for cleaning after about a month of use. I took some pictures if anyone is interested.

    Here is the cross slide with the compound removed. I can't tell you what the discoloration in the middle there is but it didn't come off with scotch brite and it was covered in a layer of oil so that makes me think it isn't rust. You can see there that there doesn't appear to be a witness mark for the compound angle so once I figure out how to add one accurately, I will have to do so. You can see how the compound attaches with the t slots and nuts.
    1qfJFRW.jpg

    Here is the underside of the compound removed I was suprised to find that the motion screw was a standard 60 degree thread rather than an acme thread. The one on my HF was acme and I thought that was the standard. This could explain some of the troubles I have been having with it. I am having a hard time getting it to move smoothly without binding while still being tight enough to cut well. I don't think there is a way to convert this to an acme screw without making a new base for it so this will probably have to do for the forseeable future. You can also see the underside of the ways here. They aren't fantastic but they are good enough I think.
    vrC79lF.jpg

    Now here is a problem. I had the hardest time focusing the camera on the finish for the compound gib but it looked like straight up tree bark. My glove would catch on it when I ran it over the top. This is on one of the sliding surfaces so that might explain some of the rough movement I was experiencing. This will certainly need some work. I may try to make one out of brass on my mill instead of trying to salvage this one.
    zbpHvr1.jpg

    I popped the cross slide off as well and I was suprised by what I found. It appeared that the ways have been scraped on this one. I am no expert but this is what I thought that would look like. You can also see where the oilers deposit the oil on the ways. This gib was in much better condition. As a side note, there is about 20 thousanths of movement I can't seem to remove from the cross slide. It seems to be independant of the backlash and only results from direct force applied to the cross slide. If that is confusing, I will turn the dial towards me say 5 turns, then reverse direction several turns (backlash is most certainly taken up) then pull towards myself from the far end, and it will slip and than catch with about 20 thousandths of movement. I can then turn the dial the same direction and it continues without taking up any backlash.
    Tw3PyIm.jpg

    Here is the carriage portion of the cross slide. Everything here seemed to be in good condition. This was before I cleaned everything up and as you can see there is some debris on the ways. I am not sure if it was there when the machine was running or if it was deposited as I removed the cross slide. Here you can see that there is an acme screw that the cross slide attaches to using a black and a bolt. I am wondering if the acme screw is not properly secured and it is causing that 20 thousandths of movement I can't seem to locate.
    4X80VbC.jpg

    I am still having trouble with the gearboxes leaking oil. I will contact Matt about that again soon. They told me the gaskets sometimes take some time to seal so I should give it a few weeks and if it didn't stop, get back in touch and we would go from there.
     
  15. ASD9000

    ASD9000 United States Swarf Registered Member

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    Man, I appreciate the update just got my pm-1030v set up today and decided to check out the forums after two weeks of waiting on a table and people to lift it. Is there something I should investigate strait out of the box first?
     
  16. MSD0

    MSD0 United States Active Member Active Member

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    It's always a good idea to go through the machine and do a good cleaning and inspection. There will probably be a few things that could be improved. On my 1127, I didn't like the way the VFD was mounted and ended up making a new mounting plate and cleaned up the wiring. I think I've also replaced most of the screws as well.
     
  17. ASD9000

    ASD9000 United States Swarf Registered Member

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    I need to pick up some wd40 and a spray bottle and start tearing it down then. New screws might be the first upgrade. Thanks for the heads up on the screws, I was hoping this wouldn't be like the mini lathes where all the screws were trash but it sounds like it is no better in that department.
     
  18. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    You are right. Initially I did a thorough cleaning and adjusted everything but not a complete disassembly. It has been working pretty well, and over time I have been taking it apart further and adjusting it better. I have been putting off leveling it which is probably a mistake. I am going to need to run a jack through the table and lift it up a bit as it looks like the left side is bowing just a bit to the weight. I am in no rush with it though and so far the limit to its precision seems to only be the amount of time I am willing to put into each operation. I think if I go slow enough, holding .0003" or tighter will be possible.
     
  19. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Id say the first thing you get squared away is the change gears. The couplers deform very easily and jam up so they need to be a sliding fit. Tapping them in will only lead to trouble. Once you get the machine, I would put the square nuts in the chuck and polish them up to a nice mirror finish. Then do the same with the couplers until they are a solid sliding fit. Not loose, but I have found they don't wear well. If they are too tight, using force to try to fit them leads to trouble.

    Then take a file to the change gear key ways and use some sandpaper to open up the insides until the couplers fit well without being forced into place. If I spent 2 hours doing that, my first 2 4 hour gear changes would have been avoided.
     
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  20. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I just documented the baffles on silencertalk. Ill post a link in a sec if you are interested.
     
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  21. MSD0

    MSD0 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Please do. Thanks
     
  22. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Anyone interested in seeing a bit of what this machine is capable of, you can have a look at the build thread I have going on silencertalk.

    Link: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137116

    I believe Matt and I have the oil leaking trouble resolved, I dont anticipate much trouble from here on out. Future changes will probably include flood coolant, a DRO for the apron and cross slide, leveling, and a collet chuck.

    Projects on this machine will include chamber reamers which will really push the limits of the precision it is capable of, barrel work, more muzzle brakes, a .45 ACP suppressor with booster, and at some point, a scratch made bolt action reciever.

    I am designing a chess set that will need to have production considerations to make 32 parts consistently. It will be a christmas present for my dad who has made all this possible. He gave me half of the garage, helped me design and build the bench, let me use his car and trailer to pick up materials and the machine itself, helped pay for the actual machine, helped move it, he even wired up an old TV in the garage and found me a heater for working in the winter. Needless to say, I couldnt possibly give him enough thank you's and I hope this present will put a dent in that debt of gratitude.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
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  23. NoobCanuk

    NoobCanuk Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Wow, that was some beautiful craftsmanship in your posts. I can't wait to see the finished brake now. I should probably take some lessons from you on your brake project. I have a 300 win mag that is a cheap rifle but with no brake it does beat a guy up if you shoot it too much.

    As for your dad I think you and I are in the same boat. My dad gave me the shirt off his back growing up and I owe him a whole lot. But now that I am a dad myself I can see where he gets the love... passing the love my parents gave to me on down to my son is the best way I know to show my appreciation to them for all they did and gave up for me. ;) But for now let your parents know how much you appreciate them and that is the best thank you any parent can ever get.
     
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  24. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I appreciate that. I got the can finished a few weeks ago and tested it out. It works very well and I am very pleased. My buddy shot it and wants one now too but he doesn't have the machining bug.

    I try to tell my parents that I appreciate everything they do, but emotions are hard. If I tried to count the number of times they went above and beyond for me, I would be here all day.
     
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  25. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I was having trouble with the chuck binding up so I took it apart and gave it a good cleaning. Figured I would take some pictures of the innards. The machining is pretty rough and there were lots of burrs. I stoned the ones I could reach and ever so lightly filed the ones off that my stones couldn't get to.

    In pieces
    pmxWZr9.jpg

    Back door
    jBvfLuJ.jpg

    Some kind of gear whos name I do not know
    5jSl6c5.jpg

    Tried to get some of the burrs in this shot
    gqg2HtR.jpg

    Some of the rough machining
    KX5XIVB.jpg

    A little bit more
    OkaX7nD.jpg

    I started working on the chess set for Christmas for my dad. So far I have the rooks and pawns designed and 3 of the 4 rooks finished. I am going to make a small ball turning tool to make the heads of the pawns. I tried to make a form tool for it but it ended up not going so well. I certainly enjoy the extra horsepower and rigidity of this lathe compared to my hold harbor freight when I am roughing off stock. I made some T nuts and blocks so I can set the compound quickly for turning some of these body features. Ill try to get a picture of that later. When I was turning down from the 1.5" base to the 1" tower diameter, I was taking .050" deep cuts (.1" off the diameter) with 3/8" carbide insert tools running about 800 RPM on the fastest power feed gear and it was just ripping through it. The finish was crap but that cleaned up at the end.

    Here is one of the rooks with the stub still attached. That black block is just hiding my name. I plan to include a set of plans when I give it to my dad. He is an electrical engineer (well he has the degree, he's an attorney though) and I think he will think its pretty cool. He will also be happy to know that I am using the machines for "More than just gun stuff".
    RS6QOm1.jpg
     
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  26. tmarks11

    tmarks11 Active User Active Member

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    Did you ever solve this problem? It sound to me like the bearing that is right behind the cross slide handle on the apron needs to be tightened up.
     
  27. brav65

    brav65 Active User Active Member

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    What great advice! My Dad always seemed to be threatened and jealous of me and treated me horribly. He now has a small part in my life which saddens me greatly. I have given up sooo much for my kids and am happy to do it. Everything I do is to help my son and his sister be better people. It is nice to see that there are other fathers who do the same for their kids. I can already see the results as my son is 13 and is an intelligent, thoughtful and caring guy who many of the other guys are jealous of. He does not understand why they are jealous, and I tell him just be who you are.
     
  28. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    No I havent fixed that. I havent yet been able to get the apron all the way apart or remove the lead screw. It hasnt been a huge issue and im trying to get everything squared away for Christmas before I go back in and try again.
     
  29. shooter123456

    shooter123456 United States Active Member Active Member

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    I mentioned using some blocks to set the angle of the compound quickly. Switching back and forth would have taken forever otherwise. This helped me get the last rook done is 36 minutes.

    I used a dial indicator to set the compound initially, then poisitioned the 1-2-3 block against my squared up block and the compound and tightened it down. then when I switched back, I positioned it the same way. I didnt measure how accurately it repositioned but the parts were visually identical and thats the part that matters here.

    8H6WFFp.jpg
     

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  30. tmarks11

    tmarks11 Active User Active Member

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    I could be wrong, but isn't that toolholder in the last picture a left hand cutting tool? Which is why you are having to angle your toolpost to get the cutting edge for a right hand cut?

    I keep my toolpost at 90 degrees to the workpiece and the compound at 90 degrees to the cross slide, unless I am cutting threads or cutting a chamfer, in which case my toolpost is still at 90 degrees to the work, and the compound at the appropriate angle. I use carbide tooling, and the manufacturer builds the toolholder with the most efficient cutting angle, so keeping it perpendicular to the stock works.

    You don't have to take the apron apart. YMMV, but you should be able to unscrew a cover off the center of the cross-slide handle, then remove the handle, which gives you access to a couple of screws holding the cross slide handle support block off. Once you unscrew the SHCS holding the lead screw block to the cross slide, the entire assembly should pull out the front of the apron. Maybe 5 minutes of work. The supporting bearings for the leadscrew come out with it.
     

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