Lower priced quick change tooling posts holders

One other quick tidbit of info... A fellow member recently sent me an AXA toolholder to have the slot widened to hold a 5/8" shank to accommodate a knurling tool. The mod is trivial but more significantly, I did a Rockwell test on it as I recall him mentioning it was an inexpensive import holder. It was RC 35 which means it was moderately heat treated (most raw metal is very low at/around 10-15 RC which is really below the normal standards of the C-rating). I have quite a few tool holders purchased at different times and places and all of them are heat treated -some more than others but nonetheless, I think this helps keep the part from deforming in critical areas.

Morale of the story: The wedge type units seem to have significant agreement in having an upper edge and from what I've seen, even the inexpensive import units are reasonably well made and the $50 difference in price over a piston type is a small price to pay when amortized over a lifetime... Finally, with tool holders costing between 10 to 20 bucks, you can't make e'm that cheap as the cost of heat treating them is that much alone. As George appropriately mentioned, get some better bolts and decent allen wrenches. I had to buy a bag of 200 to replace all mine. The bag was 20 bucks and they're good and hard metal.

Ray
 
Yes, it is amazing how much everything can move on those heavier cuts, it's cumulative, compound stick-out, gibs, crossfeed gibs, carriage lock down, tool sharpness, 'stick-out', etc etc...

I cannot disagree with the greater rigidity and convenience of the Aloris style and I am certainly not presenting the Mason post as an alternative in a professional context.

The OP is looking for lower priced QCTP's, in what I assume is a HSM environment, and based on my limited experience with a light (SB 9) lathe this has worked well for me and cost nothing to make.
 
Ray C said:
When it gets right down to it, having different kinds of toolposts and holders is always a good thing. There have been times when switching to something else made life easier and it's usually when your working on a disk with the holder sitting between the chuck and left face of the disk. -And no, you can't always flip the piece to work on the right side of the chuck as it often will blow all the alignment you're hoping to retain. I hate those cuts...

Anyhow, I may have injected confusion about the height adjustment screw scratching the compound. I see now that it sits on that round plate. Sorry about that.

If you watch a deep cut in tough material, you can see with the naked eye how much things deflect. It's quite surprising actually. The big advantage I see with the Aloris type is that they're a big square block with several square inches of contact area right smack on top of the compound. When I switched from the old lantern post to a QCTP, I was amazed at the difference in outcome -and I believe much of that lies in all the additional contact area with the compound. -In addition to all the cool features like repeatability etc.

A few days ago, I was turning a 1.75 SS shaft down to 1.5 (boat packing taper angle) at the end. I happen to have a 3/8 insert holder with the AXA setup in the lathe. I started the job with that and realized for every 20 thou DoC I was dialing in, I was only taking off little more than half of what I expected. After the first cut of that, I switched to BXA and 1/2 tooling and the amount taken off was now just a few thou short of the expected amount. The difference was that AXA and 3/8 is not as rigid as BXA with 1/2 tooling. -There are times when every little bit of extra rigidity counts -as long as it's in-line with what your compound, crossfeed and bed-width can comfortably tolerate. For easy metal like any low or medium steel -probably doesn't make a difference... Stainless -really tough stuff and from now on, it will be BXA.


Ray
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Ray

Thank you for this post! I believe this was the answer I was looking for! I will get BXA tooling when I can.

Also, thanks to others who have taken their time to add their thoughts to this thread!
 
Dan,

Before you jump the gun, make sure it fits on your machine. BXA is best for 12, 13 and 14" swing lathes. You might not even be able to make a cut with a BXA on anything smaller due to the minimum height a BXA sits at. That is, at it's lowest toolholder elevation, it might sit above the centerline of your machine.


Ray



DAN_IN_MN said:
Ray

Thank you for this post! I believe this was the answer I was looking for! I will get BXA tooling when I can.

Also, thanks to others who have taken their time to add their thoughts to this thread!
Click to expand...
 
It's definately a good idea to pass along other ideas. Like I said, sometimes you really get in a tight spot and the more tools you have in the bag of tricks, the better!

Myself and George are moderators here and are well aware that the audience of these posts is vast so, it's important to bring-out all the issues including pros & cons. Most folks here are running lathes in the 9-12" range and an AXA works perfectly fine on those machines. I use AXA on my 1236 all the time -actually, most of the time because I happen to have more 3/8 tooling than 1/2" because my previous lathe was a 10". A 12" lathe is the smallest machine you can use a BXA.

Anyhow, we (the moderators) try to contribute and pass along the common knowledge and tips along the way. I'm not a pro machinist -just a hobbyist whose been doing this for a little while. Guys like George, Bill, Tony, Tom and a good number of others are 100% pros and highly accomplished in their careers. Anyhow, those guys started with lantern posts and when square posts came out they switched because they were better and when the Aloris type made it's debut, they jumped on it and never looked back... -They speak words which are true and proven.

In short, for folks here, an AXA or BXA actually is the best and most economical solution known at this time... I'll go one step further and say that the wedge type is the way to go even though the piston type is 20% less cost. For something that's a lifetime investment, do it once and do it right. Then again, if you're totally strapped for cash, other solutions are fine too but eventually, most folks will converge on same conclusion that others have already come to.


Ray



martik777 said:
Yes, it is amazing how much everything can move on those heavier cuts, it's cumulative, compound stick-out, gibs, crossfeed gibs, carriage lock down, tool sharpness, 'stick-out', etc etc...

I cannot disagree with the greater rigidity and convenience of the Aloris style and I am certainly not presenting the Mason post as an alternative in a professional context.

The OP is looking for lower priced QCTP's, in what I assume is a HSM environment, and based on my limited experience with a light (SB 9) lathe this has worked well for me and cost nothing to make.
Click to expand...
 
I agree,Ray. Over the years,I have replaced a good number of tools with better as I got more money. Then,I end up with them on the shelf taking up space,or give them away. If you can afford a decent tool,like a wedge type tool post,buy it,and you won't end up spending money twice that you could have used for something else. I have 2 or 3 cheaper vises sitting around now that I bought a Kurt years ago. Fortunately,my cheaper vises were at least bought in the Taiwan era,rather than the Chinese(present) era,and weren't terribly bad. Lots of things like them just taking up space,but I don't want to toss them either!

Having to make crates for heavy vises to mail them isn't worth the trouble,either.
 
Well, I'm not going to buy anything any time soon. I know I really don't know enough right now to make an educated purchase. And, the funds just aren't there.

I have an idea to improve my existing tool holder and make adjusting the angle and height easier. Actually, I had the idea before I posted this thread but had forgotten about it. Using my lathe the other day making the door hinge bushings for my truck reminded me of it. I'll probably start a new thread on this. (http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/17243-Tool-post-modification)

Again, thanks to all who have given their thoughts! Keep them coming!
 
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I have a BXA Phase 2 on my 12" Grizzly. It isn't that much bigger than a AXA. In fact I had to measure it.
Works just fine.

On the 9A South Bend I have a CDCO AXA. Works just fine.

On the 10x24 Enco I use for 10 years and just recently replaced with the 12" I had an Aloris 100 (AXA). I had more trouble with it fitting my various toolholders. the Aloris toolholder was the worst fit. And the clamp handle was always in the way, could not figure out how to re-index it. It went away with the lathe.

Caviat emptor - I have had trouble with CDCO taking my money and then not shipping. Took several threatening phone calls.

Those Morse style toolposts are rigid enough. The rigidity comes from the contact area with the compound surface, not the size of the hold-down bolt/post. They are also half the height of the QCTP, so the lever arm is shorter.
 
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