Lower priced quick change tooling posts holders

Ray C said:
I'm glad you said this George, as I was thinking the same thing. With all due respect to the one who made it, I see that it has small bolts to change elevation. I have my doubts about the stability of that and feel the whole thing will cock sideways under pressure as well as ding-up the surface of your compound seating area. -Maybe I'm wrong and will stand corrected if so. At a quick glance, it does not seem rigid enough except for light cuts on moderate/mild material.


AXA QCTPs are pretty affordable -and are basically bulletproof. There are various designs of tangential holders that are intriguing and would like to try one some day.


Ray
Click to expand...

Interesting analysis. Thickness hasn't been addressed.

For guys who are a bit new to other types of tooling, what are AXA QCTPs?
 
The photo from post 24 is not mine, it's just an example I found, and you are right it does not appear thick enough. Mine has a 5/16" slot and the lip is a about .300 thick which has been strong enough with the steel I used. Previously, I made some with cast iron and the lip did fracture, so make sure you use steel or use a thicker tool block. The height adjusting screw does nothing to support the tool block, all the rigidity comes from clamping the block to the post, after which that screw still turns freely. My post is 1.2" OD and the blocks are approx 2.3 wide by 2" deep and almost an 1" thick. I did not need the washer on the bottom, as my t-nut is flush with the top of the compound. You make get away with 3/4" thick if you just make a 1/4" slot.
 
Last edited:
I would recommend a minimum of 1" thick even if the slot is only big enough to admit a 1/4" tool. A lock nut on the height adjustment screw would be good if the screw is free to revolve under vibrations. At least,drill a hole in the screw and insert a nylon plug(which is not really a permanent solution).

In all honesty,I can't see that this design offers better visibility than the Aloris. And,as pictured,you have to find the Allen wrench to change tool holders. Even with a handle,this design is not going to be as solid as a wedge type tool holder. It's tool holders rely upon a comparatively small center post that is stalky compared to the solid,square body of the Aloris type tool block. The large square Aloris type has a much larger surface area coming in contact with the top of the compound. The tool holders are not hanging out so far,with nothing to support them but their own thickness and the single height screw beneath.

Just look at the design carefully compared with the Aloris type. It does not take a engineer to see that the Aloris is more rigid. Also,the Aloris is repeatable. When you drop the tool holders onto it,they are held at exactly the same angle to the work that they were last time. The alternative tool post lets the tools freely rotate where ever they will.

Look at the Aloris type: You can get repeatability on 2 surfaces 90º apart. On this tool post,you have to swivel the tool holder about,with no way at all to achieve repeatability.

For those newbies who may not know what repeatability is,it is the ability to have pre set places on your dial where you can drop a tool holder on,set your dial to where it will produce the same diameter as last time you made this cut,and proceed.

This is not so important unless you are making multiple parts. It depends upon the work you're doing.In general, the Aloris is superior. BUT,if you don't want to pay for the Aloris,and just enjoy making your own tooling,the alternative tool post is doable,without complex internal parts,angled dovetails,etc. to make.
 
Even at less than $100.00 for the tool post alone,IF this is a decently good product,and I say IF,it is still a bargain. Most of the tool holders are only $15.00+ change. No doubt,you'd have to buy a box of better setscrews for the holders. I recommend Hollocrome.(sp?) The hex holes in Chinese set screws will bugger up the first time you tighten down on them. AND,it can be hard to get them loose after they get buggered.

At such low prices,it just isn't worth making them unless you just like to. In my case,15 years ago,Hardinge wanted $275.00 for ONE tool holder(not the tool post!) You are darn tooting' I made MY tool holders. Their tool holders aren't even hardened. Ridiculous price. I made a long,milled piece of steel with the dovetails cut,and cut them off like slices of bread. Then,I milled the grooves for the tools. I made 20,10 each for me and my journeyman,Jon,who has an older HLV. The biggest pain was tapping all those holes! I didn't bother to bring my tapping head in.

P.S.: BUY quality Allen Wrenches,too,if you want them to not bugger right up. I have a set of long,T handle wrenches in a stand, as well as the box full of regular length old USA made wrenches. They aren't that expensive,and it is foolish to buy soft Chinese wrenches. Allen brand is good.

Without good Allen screws and good wrenches,your life will be miserable. It isn't worth the frustration to buy cheap screws and wrenches.
 
Here you go. Scroll down to the bottom of this page. AXA Wedge set for $125. I have this set and it's fine. Everything is hardened to RC 45. Four years old and no problems. BTW: I know the fellow who runs/owns tools4cheap.net and he's a great guy to do business with.

http://www.tools4cheap.net/products.php?cat=9


Ray
 
Ok, you almost have me talked into it....

Cheaper yet: $55 for just the piston style post:
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1544/Quick_Changing_Tool_Post_Piston_Type_100_AXA $55


And $9 for each tool holder:
http://www.cdcotools.com/index.php $9


I have to disagree about the tool bit hanging further out on the mason style, it is actually closer to the center of the post than the Aloris style.

Rigidity is absolutely not an issue.

And once again, the height adjusting screw is NOT part of the support of the block.

I must say, for $9 they are definitely not worth making. The mason holders are a PITA to make and each will need their own handle.

Here's one that I made:

toolpost1.jpg
 
It is still sitting on a much smaller diameter stalk. Smaller size footprint means less rigidity. It might not be enough to matter on a small lathe in a home shop application on a small lathe of limited power. There is a reason why the great majority use Aloris type tool posts,or on other styles that still use a large size tool block. I did not say that the height adjusting screw provided support for the tool. Sorry if that was mis interpreted.

I have yet to see a Mason type tool post in a professional machine shop. See plenty of Aloris types,though. I am a retired professional machinist.
 
When it gets right down to it, having different kinds of toolposts and holders is always a good thing. There have been times when switching to something else made life easier and it's usually when your working on a disk with the holder sitting between the chuck and left face of the disk. -And no, you can't always flip the piece to work on the right side of the chuck as it often will blow all the alignment you're hoping to retain. I hate those cuts...

Anyhow, I may have injected confusion about the height adjustment screw scratching the compound. I see now that it sits on that round plate. Sorry about that.

If you watch a deep cut in tough material, you can see with the naked eye how much things deflect. It's quite surprising actually. The big advantage I see with the Aloris type is that they're a big square block with several square inches of contact area right smack on top of the compound. When I switched from the old lantern post to a QCTP, I was amazed at the difference in outcome -and I believe much of that lies in all the additional contact area with the compound. -In addition to all the cool features like repeatability etc.

A few days ago, I was turning a 1.75 SS shaft down to 1.5 (boat packing taper angle) at the end. I happen to have a 3/8 insert holder with the AXA setup in the lathe. I started the job with that and realized for every 20 thou DoC I was dialing in, I was only taking off little more than half of what I expected. After the first cut of that, I switched to BXA and 1/2 tooling and the amount taken off was now just a few thou short of the expected amount. The difference was that AXA and 3/8 is not as rigid as BXA with 1/2 tooling. -There are times when every little bit of extra rigidity counts -as long as it's in-line with what your compound, crossfeed and bed-width can comfortably tolerate. For easy metal like any low or medium steel -probably doesn't make a difference... Stainless -really tough stuff and from now on, it will be BXA.


Ray



george wilson said:
It is still sitting on a much smaller diameter stalk. Smaller size footprint means less rigidity. It might not be enough to matter on a small lathe in a home shop application. There is a reason why the great majority use Aloris type tool posts,or on other styles that still use a large size tool block. I did not say that the height adjusting screw provided support for the tool. Sorry if that was mis interpreted.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top