This is kind of a key difference between sync services (which do have access to your data) and at least certain backups like the system I use, where they don’t have the encryption key and therefore cannot access the data.
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What is everyone using for computer backups?
- Thread starter alloy
- Start date
This is kind of a key difference between sync services (which do have access to your data) and at least certain backups like the system I use, where they don’t have the encryption key and therefore cannot access the data.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2019
- Messages
- 7,148
Backblaze
If you don’t want to use any online services make sure you keep physical media in a remote location. Won’t do you any good if it burns up with the computer that’s backed up to it.
Or just use iCloud, Google or One Drive. If it’s super important email it to a friend.
John
If you don’t want to use any online services make sure you keep physical media in a remote location. Won’t do you any good if it burns up with the computer that’s backed up to it.
Or just use iCloud, Google or One Drive. If it’s super important email it to a friend.
John
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2023
- Messages
- 655
Do not use external hard drives for backup, unless you’re planning to plug them into the computer frequently. Otherwise bit rot will destroy your data in the long run.
I also recommend to adopt the 3-2-1 backup practice
I also recommend to adopt the 3-2-1 backup practice
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2017
- Messages
- 804
Yeah, I had multiple non-networked drives that size, spun down most of the time and basically remembered to
do one backup a year.
Got a Time Machine for the network (actually several) and those back up the Macs (my most important machines) automagically, daily
incremental, as long as I leave 'em powered (at night I 'sleep' them rather than shutdown).
The default was hourly incremental, I kept hearing the drives spinning up...
I use rsync, my wife uses Second Copy because it's simple.
There's no such thing as "the cloud" there is only someone else's computer and most of them will frisk your data for all kinds of uses while not being liable if your data is lost or leaked. There are a lot of ways you can go wrong with presumably encrypted data, so if you're not prepared to get technical don't think that you can make an informed choice in that regard.
I keep multiple USB (solid state) drives (on and off premises) in rotation. I also make some full disk images (which are particular to a given machine, but great if a hard drive dies) every so often.
GsT
There's no such thing as "the cloud" there is only someone else's computer and most of them will frisk your data for all kinds of uses while not being liable if your data is lost or leaked. There are a lot of ways you can go wrong with presumably encrypted data, so if you're not prepared to get technical don't think that you can make an informed choice in that regard.
I keep multiple USB (solid state) drives (on and off premises) in rotation. I also make some full disk images (which are particular to a given machine, but great if a hard drive dies) every so often.
GsT
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2019
- Messages
- 7,148
Yes, the cloud is real. There’s lots of infrastructure behind it. Many, many computers and the companies that depend on it have much higher data integrity standards then most/all of us.
The most sensitive data about you is probably already out there and you don’t have any control over it. Well, except our members in Europe
I unpacked my local NAS devices from our latest move last week. Not sure I’ll even plug them in again, probably something good on there but not really needed in my world these days.
A couple of pictures from the Open Compute Project conference I worked a few weeks ago.
John
I rotate 3 hard drives in a usb dock for multiple generations of back up. The drives are offline (on a shelf) when not in use. Can’t hack a drive that’s not plugged in! I use Microsoft’s old synctoy program to create / update the backups. It doesn’t get much simpler.
About once a year I also clone the main drive. This preserves the software in addition to the files.
About once a year I also clone the main drive. This preserves the software in addition to the files.
Hi @alloy
USB backup drives are simple and work, but you have to do the work. I will provide some thoughts/logic and some of my tricks to making this more straight forward.
I have been involved in data storage and computers all of my life. All automatic backup systems and services eventually have problems and you are stuck with the results. So, I do not use a backup service or a local automated backup system, but do back up to multiple spare USB drives ever so often. Large drives are cheap, especially a magnetic hard disk drives (as opposed to a solid state drive). You can pull a drive from your PC (if it has one that is removable one these days!) and put it in a USB box and then use it. In fact, over the years when I wanted to go to a new computer or to a new OS, or just rebuild my OS, I just buy a new drive use a partition imaging software tool and image the old partitions to the new drive. I can do this repeatably and then have identical spare drives. I have used the free versions of Partition Magic and Mini Tool Partition Wizard Free for years, but mostly I use the Mini Tool Partition Wizard Free and have it on an old laptop, which allows me to take my current drive out of my current machine, put it in a USB box and copy it to another USB drive. There are many other cloning programs available and for $ they maybe more powerful. They will image from one USB drive to another USB drive. If you "buy" a more modern version I believe that it will also image from the operating drive/partition (the one that has the the OS running on it) to a spare drive. In fact, when I install a new OS and all of the applications to a new drive I image this drive to another just so I have a back up of the virgin system. It takes a long time to build up a new OS with applications. So this saves a lot of time.
I try to keep all of my data files on a separate partition from the OS and I try to always save my data files to a location I know about, not in some folder like mydocs etc. that Windows or an application sets up and tends to hide down inside the OS folders. This way they are easier to find to back up. I keep multiple copies of data for programs that I write with a simple file name trick. at the end of the file I put the date so that I can tell when I have changed it, and then I make a new file with the new date code for the next set of changes. My date code also tends to allow me to sort the files visually by date. So suppose you are working on a data file like a Word document and you want to name it MyStory.doc I would name it MyStoryOB05_0725.doc., where OB05_0725 is the date/time stamp. During the week as I was editing it I would change the date/time stamp to reflect the more recent version and just keep them all in the same folder. ) No more of this non-sense of having phrases like MyStory_version5.doc then then having a MyStory_final.doc only to find errors and changing it again to MyStory_final_final_again.doc. Likewise if two people are working on the same file just add initials to the date stamp.) When you are all finished you can just delete all the old versions you don't need.
(Date/time stamp code: For example, to day is Nov, 5, 2024, time is 7:25 AM. This codes to OB05_0725 where the O corresponds to 2024. (I started this in 2000 as a hex code and then just kept going....and started out as 2000 = 0, 2001=1,.... 2009=9, 2010 =A, 2011=B,.... 2023=N, 2024 =O. I am not for sure I how I will continue this when I reach the end of the alphabet!. But that is a few years away and I probably will not need it any longer than that. Anyway, as you can see I have been at this a while. The months are coded the same way. Jan =1, Feb =2, etc Sept. =9, Oct =A, Nov. =B, Dec =C. Then the day of the month uses the next two digits. First day of the month is 01, etc. Hence the date is represented by only 4 digits. The time is simply military time format. )
More importantly, is how you organize your data to start with. It is some trouble, but I begin each new year with a folder named for the year. Under this I have a few folder names which I always use year after year. (Workname, Consulting, Personal, et.) Under these folder names I then have a few others that get repeated each year. Then folders for the year as needed. Keep this years stuff in this years folder and it becomes easy to archive. Then do not go back and change them once the year is over. If you need to continue to work on them just copy a version to the next years folder structure. Then all you have to do is backup/copy the old year up once, but you can do so on multiple drives. You can back up the current years folders as often as you think you should.... once a month, but at the end of the year archive it along with the previous years. Keep your backup drives, especially the old ones off line. This way, you do not have to worry about loosing the data to a virus or scammers etc. It is a good idea to keep one at a different location in case of fire to theft. (Work? Safety deposit box) .
I found that backup services, when you need them commonly supply an image of your drive without much organization so that you then have to straighten it all out. Remember that back up services/automatic software only record the changes. So my approach keeps things organized all along. I have archived my years back to the 1989.
There is also free software to copy/compare your drive folders/partitions to a separate drive or computer.
I also find an old piece of software, Comparator 2.2, handy to compare the contents of folders and for updating the backup manually. I got it long ago for free and I still use it , but it may no longer free. https://comparator.software.informer.com/2.2/
The version I lets you connect to another computer or between HDDs that are on your local network or connected via USB (or internal to a single computer) and view and compare the folders between two computers. It notes witch files are newer lets you copy from one to the other. It's biggest down size is that it does not allow me to delete a file inside the program. There are competitors to this that may be better just because they are newer.
I back up all of my email and leave none of it on the email server. I toss most of it, but even keeping the important stuff for years gets pretty large. I also back it up a few times a year. You can do the same with your browsing web sites etc.
Lastly, I wanted to suggest a simple CMD (DOS) batch file which will allow you to copy entire folder structures with a single command. (I assume you are using a windows based machine.) I do this when I want to re-create a bunch of folders for the future year's files. It saves lots of typing time. You can copy them with or without the files. I prefer to leave the files and just copy the file structure. You can then delete or change any of the folders or folder names you do not want to keep.
Use the CMD window and move to the drive folder that you wish to copy. Suppose that folder is located in drive D: and inside the folders Dave . Then use the robocopy command.
See
D:\ help robocopy (to see the details. )
Open the CMD window and you will see the first three lines below. Then type in the next lines using your directory names and execute it. You will get a copy of all of the ASSUS24 folder and all of its subfolders, but none of the files.
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Windows\System32>D:
D:\>CD Dave
D:\Dave>
D:\Dave> robocopy D:\Dave\ASUS2024 D:\Dave\ASUS2026 *.z45 /E
Good luck.
USB backup drives are simple and work, but you have to do the work. I will provide some thoughts/logic and some of my tricks to making this more straight forward.
I have been involved in data storage and computers all of my life. All automatic backup systems and services eventually have problems and you are stuck with the results. So, I do not use a backup service or a local automated backup system, but do back up to multiple spare USB drives ever so often. Large drives are cheap, especially a magnetic hard disk drives (as opposed to a solid state drive). You can pull a drive from your PC (if it has one that is removable one these days!) and put it in a USB box and then use it. In fact, over the years when I wanted to go to a new computer or to a new OS, or just rebuild my OS, I just buy a new drive use a partition imaging software tool and image the old partitions to the new drive. I can do this repeatably and then have identical spare drives. I have used the free versions of Partition Magic and Mini Tool Partition Wizard Free for years, but mostly I use the Mini Tool Partition Wizard Free and have it on an old laptop, which allows me to take my current drive out of my current machine, put it in a USB box and copy it to another USB drive. There are many other cloning programs available and for $ they maybe more powerful. They will image from one USB drive to another USB drive. If you "buy" a more modern version I believe that it will also image from the operating drive/partition (the one that has the the OS running on it) to a spare drive. In fact, when I install a new OS and all of the applications to a new drive I image this drive to another just so I have a back up of the virgin system. It takes a long time to build up a new OS with applications. So this saves a lot of time.
I try to keep all of my data files on a separate partition from the OS and I try to always save my data files to a location I know about, not in some folder like mydocs etc. that Windows or an application sets up and tends to hide down inside the OS folders. This way they are easier to find to back up. I keep multiple copies of data for programs that I write with a simple file name trick. at the end of the file I put the date so that I can tell when I have changed it, and then I make a new file with the new date code for the next set of changes. My date code also tends to allow me to sort the files visually by date. So suppose you are working on a data file like a Word document and you want to name it MyStory.doc I would name it MyStoryOB05_0725.doc., where OB05_0725 is the date/time stamp. During the week as I was editing it I would change the date/time stamp to reflect the more recent version and just keep them all in the same folder. ) No more of this non-sense of having phrases like MyStory_version5.doc then then having a MyStory_final.doc only to find errors and changing it again to MyStory_final_final_again.doc. Likewise if two people are working on the same file just add initials to the date stamp.) When you are all finished you can just delete all the old versions you don't need.
(Date/time stamp code: For example, to day is Nov, 5, 2024, time is 7:25 AM. This codes to OB05_0725 where the O corresponds to 2024. (I started this in 2000 as a hex code and then just kept going....and started out as 2000 = 0, 2001=1,.... 2009=9, 2010 =A, 2011=B,.... 2023=N, 2024 =O. I am not for sure I how I will continue this when I reach the end of the alphabet!. But that is a few years away and I probably will not need it any longer than that. Anyway, as you can see I have been at this a while. The months are coded the same way. Jan =1, Feb =2, etc Sept. =9, Oct =A, Nov. =B, Dec =C. Then the day of the month uses the next two digits. First day of the month is 01, etc. Hence the date is represented by only 4 digits. The time is simply military time format. )
More importantly, is how you organize your data to start with. It is some trouble, but I begin each new year with a folder named for the year. Under this I have a few folder names which I always use year after year. (Workname, Consulting, Personal, et.) Under these folder names I then have a few others that get repeated each year. Then folders for the year as needed. Keep this years stuff in this years folder and it becomes easy to archive. Then do not go back and change them once the year is over. If you need to continue to work on them just copy a version to the next years folder structure. Then all you have to do is backup/copy the old year up once, but you can do so on multiple drives. You can back up the current years folders as often as you think you should.... once a month, but at the end of the year archive it along with the previous years. Keep your backup drives, especially the old ones off line. This way, you do not have to worry about loosing the data to a virus or scammers etc. It is a good idea to keep one at a different location in case of fire to theft. (Work? Safety deposit box) .
I found that backup services, when you need them commonly supply an image of your drive without much organization so that you then have to straighten it all out. Remember that back up services/automatic software only record the changes. So my approach keeps things organized all along. I have archived my years back to the 1989.
There is also free software to copy/compare your drive folders/partitions to a separate drive or computer.
I also find an old piece of software, Comparator 2.2, handy to compare the contents of folders and for updating the backup manually. I got it long ago for free and I still use it , but it may no longer free. https://comparator.software.informer.com/2.2/
The version I lets you connect to another computer or between HDDs that are on your local network or connected via USB (or internal to a single computer) and view and compare the folders between two computers. It notes witch files are newer lets you copy from one to the other. It's biggest down size is that it does not allow me to delete a file inside the program. There are competitors to this that may be better just because they are newer.
I back up all of my email and leave none of it on the email server. I toss most of it, but even keeping the important stuff for years gets pretty large. I also back it up a few times a year. You can do the same with your browsing web sites etc.
Lastly, I wanted to suggest a simple CMD (DOS) batch file which will allow you to copy entire folder structures with a single command. (I assume you are using a windows based machine.) I do this when I want to re-create a bunch of folders for the future year's files. It saves lots of typing time. You can copy them with or without the files. I prefer to leave the files and just copy the file structure. You can then delete or change any of the folders or folder names you do not want to keep.
Use the CMD window and move to the drive folder that you wish to copy. Suppose that folder is located in drive D: and inside the folders Dave . Then use the robocopy command.
See
D:\ help robocopy (to see the details. )
Open the CMD window and you will see the first three lines below. Then type in the next lines using your directory names and execute it. You will get a copy of all of the ASSUS24 folder and all of its subfolders, but none of the files.
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Windows\System32>D:
D:\>CD Dave
D:\Dave>
D:\Dave> robocopy D:\Dave\ASUS2024 D:\Dave\ASUS2026 *.z45 /E
Good luck.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2021
- Messages
- 2,947
Getting back to the KISS principle, this is what I do for my four “active” MacBooks (also have two spares):
Office Workstation (13” 2020 M1MacBook Air)
• 8TB Time Machine USB HDD, always connected
• 2, 4TB Time Machine USB HHD’s, rotated every two months (the one not in use is kept in a data-rated fire safe; regular fire safe is useless for storing data)
* Photos & other media are stored on a separate, always connected 2TB HDD, which is backed up to the Time Machine drives.
* Applications live on the MBA, but 80% of documents reside on iCloud so they are available to all systems (and phone & iPads) [secure storage, $3/month for 200GB, which is sufficient for my use]
Shop Laptop (13” 2010 MacBook Air), Wife’s Laptop (13” 2017 MacBook Air) and Office Second Laptop (15” 2012 MacBook Pro) - utility use for 3D printer, LabelWriters (2) and running older software (notably Bluebeam Revu for Mac to annotate & edit PDF’s)
• 2, 2TB Time Machine USB HDD’s, rotated for each
Spare Laptops (13” 2011 MacBook Air & 15” 2012, both purchased used years ago)
• 2TB Time Machine USB HHD for each, connected when spare is in use
In addition, each of the MacBooks has a mirror drive (Carbon Copy Cloner) that is updated when the Time Machine backups are swapped.
Yes, it’s a little work every couple of months, but the MacBooks remind us when it’s time to swap the drives and the few times I’ve had any problems in the last 30+ years (similar setup on previous Mac’s) I never lost any data, and some documents on my office system date back to the early 90’s.
Office Workstation (13” 2020 M1MacBook Air)
• 8TB Time Machine USB HDD, always connected
• 2, 4TB Time Machine USB HHD’s, rotated every two months (the one not in use is kept in a data-rated fire safe; regular fire safe is useless for storing data)
* Photos & other media are stored on a separate, always connected 2TB HDD, which is backed up to the Time Machine drives.
* Applications live on the MBA, but 80% of documents reside on iCloud so they are available to all systems (and phone & iPads) [secure storage, $3/month for 200GB, which is sufficient for my use]
Shop Laptop (13” 2010 MacBook Air), Wife’s Laptop (13” 2017 MacBook Air) and Office Second Laptop (15” 2012 MacBook Pro) - utility use for 3D printer, LabelWriters (2) and running older software (notably Bluebeam Revu for Mac to annotate & edit PDF’s)
• 2, 2TB Time Machine USB HDD’s, rotated for each
Spare Laptops (13” 2011 MacBook Air & 15” 2012, both purchased used years ago)
• 2TB Time Machine USB HHD for each, connected when spare is in use
In addition, each of the MacBooks has a mirror drive (Carbon Copy Cloner) that is updated when the Time Machine backups are swapped.
Yes, it’s a little work every couple of months, but the MacBooks remind us when it’s time to swap the drives and the few times I’ve had any problems in the last 30+ years (similar setup on previous Mac’s) I never lost any data, and some documents on my office system date back to the early 90’s.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2015
- Messages
- 9,717
Encryption is just a method to slow things down. Almost every encryption algorithm has eventually been broken. You just need more hardware, faster processing time, and time. Not saying the average Joe's data will be a target, but in the scheme of things, I'll keep my data offline.
And yes this is dumb, since I rely on encryption for all my passwords.
But to me, security is just an illusion.