Well, Im in a dispute with VEVOR over a damaged rotary table.

yota said:
there's no doubt the chinese can, but how much really good stuff have you seen outside their government? if expensive chinese products were good, people would by them just like we pay a premium for Japanese and German stuff. even the stuff they keep in their own country is poor according to people who have lived there. I'm just gonna say, the sheer number of poorly made products coming out of china vs most other countries is much higher.

sadly, the last days of very high-quality products from US manufacturing was probably in the 50's. our automobiles in the 70's and 80's were for the most part, atrocious. it doesn't help when unions make it difficult to impossible to fire bad employees. we do seem to be getting some nice stuff from small shops in the US now. a lot of products out of Europe is top notch. japan and Tiawan have great stuff.
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They seem to struggle building their carriers.

As to the union issue, we stopped firing people altogether over 20yrs ago due mostly to the cost of training and lack of bodies.

We have found that it’s better to put the undesirables in crap jobs and let them figure out whether to show up on time daily or stay in a crap workstation until they willingly quit.

40yrs ago when I started we had spare man pool. It was an area where certain workers would muster every morning. These people either had no real ability/desire to work or were skilled enough they could do any job, but were excess to out day to day staffing needs.

If two people were needed a go getter would be sent with a slacker, the results were interesting.

For the most part, a slacker would work reasonably well when instructed by a peer vs a boss. Some form of guilt going on I guess.


Then we went “Lean” and everything went to hell. Extremely high turnover, burnout, repetitive motion injuries.

We would hire 50 people (staffing is 1200 as of today) and by the end of the first week we would have 10 of the 50 left.

The house and physical labor was too much for the average worker looking for our pay level.


Over the years due mostly to staffing the jobs have been dumbed down and made less physical.

We haven’t had the standard Union/Company dynamic for decades and good riddance.
 
yota said:
there's no doubt the chinese can, but how much really good stuff have you seen outside their government? if expensive chinese products were good, people would by them just like we pay a premium for Japanese and German stuff. even the stuff they keep in their own country is poor according to people who have lived there. I'm just gonna say, the sheer number of poorly made products coming out of china vs most other countries is much higher.

sadly, the last days of very high-quality products from US manufacturing was probably in the 50's. our automobiles in the 70's and 80's were for the most part, atrocious. it doesn't help when unions make it difficult to impossible to fire bad employees. we do seem to be getting some nice stuff from small shops in the US now. a lot of products out of Europe is top notch. japan and Tiawan have great stuff.
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Well said.
It is all market driven.
Vevor et. al. builds retrograde stuff because there is a market for it.
Ever read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Persig?
Persig knows what quality is and tries to define it.
400 pages later he realizes he can't define it but he still knows it exists and it nearly drives him to madness in real life.
There are many of us who don't know about quality. They don't care about it.
They only care about instant gratification.
Having it Now.
It was mentioned above that the ro-tab in question only has to last for one job.
I see that philosophy as fine when it comes to tea bags and replaceable utility knife blades.
Unless... the tea bag splits and spills the tea and the blade won't cut a piece of string.
I see the OP of this discussion as similar to a person who is willing to sew up the tea bag or sharpen the blade before he can use it.
I respect his right to buy what he wants but I abhor that way of thinking.
It is wasteful in every way and causes competitors of Vevor to reduce quality as well. And pretty soon we have nothing but low quality stuff and mountains of trash that was thrown away because it couldn't perform the function it was made for.
 
yota said:
Ha Ha. hydraulic press test.
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Yeah, about, Chinese steel....

Im thinking the major difference here is the US made hammer was forged and the chineses was cast.

Having said that, we have several die sets made in China and the material they use is strange. Overall the dies work OK, but problems crop up in the strangest ways. The working components (Punches, bushings, etc) are extremely hard and hold up well, but the tolerances and uniformity of the die set overall is bizarre.

Hardened "steel" that gets gummy when you try to cut it. Soft "Steel" that is more like working with copper (Tapping) or stainless when you try to turn it.

Its almost like they took the property's of every grade if steel and blended them to make one unisteel to try and fit all applications.

Strange stuff to work with, throw convention aside and just see what works.
 
yeah, you could see what looked like shrinkage cracks before they even started pressing it. no surprise.
 
As long as it's flat and doesn't effect your work piece. To me, it just looks like cosmetic damage that doesn't reflect on the actual workpiece.
 
Real question is: do modern US made stuff is built as well as the classic stuff?

I do remember reading that many people failed at making knives out of files because modern stuff is just case hardened.
 
the question is, other than small shop production, are things like sledgehammers and files even made in USA anymore? most of what I see new in stores here are made in china. or India. between the 2, I would choose India.
 
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yota said:
there's no doubt the chinese can, but how much really good stuff have you seen outside their government? if expensive chinese products were good, people would by them just like we pay a premium for Japanese and German stuff. even the stuff they keep in their own country is poor according to people who have lived there. I'm just gonna say, the sheer number of poorly made products coming out of china vs most other countries is much higher.
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My wife is Vietnamese. When we started visiting family, and carrying 'many' items to them, I had to ask when I saw things that were "Made In China". I asked why are we carrying this stuff half way around the world, when Vietnam shares a border with China. Her response was that China "sends us the rejects". Which, after spending time there, seems to be true. Food stuffs especially troubling.
 
yota said:
there's no doubt the chinese can, but how much really good stuff have you seen outside their government? if expensive chinese products were good, people would by them just like we pay a premium for Japanese and German stuff. even the stuff they keep in their own country is poor according to people who have lived there. I'm just gonna say, the sheer number of poorly made products coming out of china vs most other countries is much higher.

sadly, the last days of very high-quality products from US manufacturing was probably in the 50's. our automobiles in the 70's and 80's were for the most part, atrocious. it doesn't help when unions make it difficult to impossible to fire bad employees. we do seem to be getting some nice stuff from small shops in the US now. a lot of products out of Europe are top notch. Japan and Tiawan have great stuff.
Click to expand...
China is about where Japan was in the late 70's / early 80's, when Japan was considered the place to buy cheap junk. Their quality in some things has become equal to anyone, but clearly not all things. I pretty much use entirely Chinese solid carbide endmills, and I've recently started trying Chinese carbide inserts again, because many of those are also now excellent. Hold on to your hats! America needs to manufacture more, and the door is open to compete on quality - for now. But it would be foolish to count on that lasting. The Chinese can, and will, produce equal or even superior quality when the market is there.

GsT
 
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