TouchDRO Adapter Upgrade or Trade-In

[ycroosh]

Yuriy,

I love ya man! And I want to support you. That said, I'm a knob in the worst way when it comes to DRO's, and this whole "upgrade" business is unclear to me.

Dec 2022, I bought a fully assembled board, with "kit" enclosure.

DRO Adapter for Glass and Magnetic Scales V2​

I've hooked up the unit, played around with it some, but haven't gotten my lathe fully functional yet, so I've yet to truly enjoy and learn the capabilities of the unit yet.

Does my unit qualify for the $25 upgrade? It was not "fully assembled" so I'm unclear. And if it is, what layman features does it add to make it worth both my and your effort to make it happen?

The one thing I'd like, is if the unit remembered the last know position if the TouchDRO is powered down. I think your newer units do this, but I'm unclear about mine.

Anyway, please forgive my knobness. I totally understand that you want to move away from guys like me, and get your unit targeted at guys that are pros, and more knowledgeable. That said, I love that you have supported the newbie's up to this point.

Sorry for the ramble...I suspect I'm not alone in my question, though.

I feel like there are at least three things that I need to "unpack":

1. Thank you
2. The $25 upgrade applies only to the orders for fully assembled units (as in, people who paid $159 for the TouchDRO adapter and the description contained "Option A/B/C/D". I sold fully assembled units starting in September of 2023. For these adapters I will upgrade the firmware to the latest version (which bring some new functionality and future expandability, and unlocks access to TouchDRO Plus. More on this below.
3. The trade-in upgrade applies to any TouchDRO adapter purchased directly from me, as long as you have the original receipt (email) or I know you (i.e. people who actively helped with testing, provided feedback, ideas, etc.). Once I receive the unit with a printout of the original receipt, I will send you a discount code for 50% of your original order (less any refunds/discounts) that you can use towards a new adapter.
4. I'm not trying to move away from anyone. My target market is (very deliberately): hobbyists/enthusiasts, prototyping shops, etc. The whole point of TouchDRO is that it's much simpler to use than a traditional DRO.

I fully intend to support DIYers, etc. but I'm also trying to make TouchDRO into a more sustainable business. Bear with me for a few minutes: last year I sold a bit under 400 DIY kits for $59. My BOM cost was $17, $2 went to credit card fees and $8 to shipping/packaging supplies. That left $32 of "profit". If you do the math, $32 * 400 = $12800. Then around 40% of that money went to taxes, so I'm left with $7680 to cover around 300 hours of R&D (firmware development, circuit design, debugging, ordering, photos, documentation, etc.) and about 15 minutes per kit to program, test, package and ship it. That's another 100 hours (very conservatively). Then about 20% of the order had some sort of follow up support along the lines "I did everything perfectly but my kit is not connecting". Let's say that was another 15 minutes (again, very conservatively). That adds up to about 425 hours. When I divide $7680 by 425, I get $18 per hour (and I didn't even include the cost of software licenses, equipment, etc.). To put it bluntly, I'm not ready to work 2-3 hours every evening and another 8-10 hours on the weekend for $18/hour.

With all this said, my rationale for the upgrade offer was that between September and January a bunch of people bough a "top of the line" TouchDRO unit for $159. The new TDA-4xx adapters include unlock for the TouchDRO Plus version (which will be out in a few weeks). Since the $159 were a "bridge" option between the partially assembled kit (assembled board and enclosure kit) and TDA-4xx, I want to be nice and offer TouchDRO Plus unlock. Unfortunately, the unlock code is baked into the board now, and the old boards didn't have it, so right now the only way to get it is to have me refresh the board with the V3.0 firmware. The reasons the "free" upgrade will cost $25 are:
1. $2 of that $25 goes to the credit card fees
2. I will have to ship the board back to the customer, which costs around $8-$10 these days (shipping plus packaging)
3. I will need to take apart the adapter, upload the firmware, put the adapter together and retest it. This takes roughly 15 minutes
4. I will need to package the adapter, print the shipping label, and drive the box to USPS (minus the driving, this takes about 5 minutes)

The reasons I'm offering this ONLY to people who bought the $159 adapter is because for all intents and purposes I'm giving away free TouchDRO Plus unlock (which will be eventually available as a standalone upgrade and will probably cost more than $25) and $45/hour rate for the upgrade labor is ridiculously low. Basically this is a courtesy upgrade offer where I ask the customers to cover the shipping a portion of the labor. Also, I can deal with a few dozen upgrades. If I were open this up (even at higher price) to anyone who ever bough a compatible adapter, I will be spending all of my time upgrading the firmware, and I'd rather spend those hours adding more functionality to the app.

Finally, as far as the difference in features goes.
The adapter hardware you have falls between the current kit and TDA-420 adapter (comparison between those two is here: https://www.touchdro.com/resources/adapters/32-bit/feature-comparison.html)

Compared to the current TDA-40T kit, your adapter has touch probe support and four limit switch inputs.
Compared to your current adapter, TDA-420 has USB output, reference track support, probe and tach input that can be used as two additional axis inputs, and data retention on power loss. On top of that, it has the activation key for TouchDRO Plus.

Upgrading the "old" adapter to the V3 firmware adds:
1. Ability to use touch probe and tachometer inputs as an additional axis input (one, compared to two that TDA-420 has)
2. Convert limit switch inputs to reference track input (you'd need additional soldering to install the headers and add a wire to the DB-9 connector)
3. Add TouchDRO Plus activation key

There is no way to add power loss data retention, since the board doesn't have the brownout detection circuit, super capacitor to power the MCU during power loss, and eeprom to write the position.

Hope this makes sense
Yuriy

 

[ChazzC]

The short answer - I don't know.
The long answer - Import laws, customers, and tariffs for international shipping are, to put it mildly, a mess. In theory, I will need to pay customs duties when I get the unit back (for the full retail value of the unit). I.e.:

"The new and used goods that will be imported into the United States pursuant to a warranty claim can be appraised using the transaction value of identical or similar new goods."

Then on the way back, I will need to declare the unit(s) at retail value, so you will need to pay tariffs, VAT. etc. (if you are in EU).
And then, there is a complicated process called "Duties Drawback" that we can use to get our money back in "up to 99% of cases".
If it ends up being this complicated, it won't be feasible to deal with this.

Yuriy,

You may want to talk with a Customs Broker: although it was around 2005, the company I worked for was buying equipment from Italy and wanted specific Urethane wheels installed; however, these weren't available in Europe, so we shipped two pallets of wheels over to Italy, along with original paperwork and when they came back attached to the new equipment we got a credit for the duty we paid. The Italian company adjusted their value to account for now wheels (car salesman: "Oh, you want tires & wheels for your new car? That's extra.").


Charlie

 

[sharkmonkey]

I feel like there are at least three things that I need to "unpack":

1. Thank you
2. The $25 upgrade applies only to the orders for fully assembled units (as in, people who paid $159 for the TouchDRO adapter and the description contained "Option A/B/C/D". I sold fully assembled units starting in September of 2023. For these adapters I will upgrade the firmware to the latest version (which bring some new functionality and future expandability, and unlocks access to TouchDRO Plus. More on this below.
3. The trade-in upgrade applies to any TouchDRO adapter purchased directly from me, as long as you have the original receipt (email) or I know you (i.e. people who actively helped with testing, provided feedback, ideas, etc.). Once I receive the unit with a printout of the original receipt, I will send you a discount code for 50% of your original order (less any refunds/discounts) that you can use towards a new adapter.
4. I'm not trying to move away from anyone. My target market is (very deliberately): hobbyists/enthusiasts, prototyping shops, etc. The whole point of TouchDRO is that it's much simpler to use than a traditional DRO.

I fully intend to support DIYers, etc. but I'm also trying to make TouchDRO into a more sustainable business. Bear with me for a few minutes: last year I sold a bit under 400 DIY kits for $59. My BOM cost was $17, $2 went to credit card fees and $8 to shipping/packaging supplies. That left $32 of "profit". If you do the math, $32 * 400 = $12800. Then around 40% of that money went to taxes, so I'm left with $7680 to cover around 300 hours of R&D (firmware development, circuit design, debugging, ordering, photos, documentation, etc.) and about 15 minutes per kit to program, test, package and ship it. That's another 100 hours (very conservatively). Then about 20% of the order had some sort of follow up support along the lines "I did everything perfectly but my kit is not connecting". Let's say that was another 15 minutes (again, very conservatively). That adds up to about 425 hours. When I divide $7680 by 425, I get $18 per hour (and I didn't even include the cost of software licenses, equipment, etc.). To put it bluntly, I'm not ready to work 2-3 hours every evening and another 8-10 hours on the weekend for $18/hour.

With all this said, my rationale for the upgrade offer was that between September and January a bunch of people bough a "top of the line" TouchDRO unit for $159. The new TDA-4xx adapters include unlock for the TouchDRO Plus version (which will be out in a few weeks). Since the $159 were a "bridge" option between the partially assembled kit (assembled board and enclosure kit) and TDA-4xx, I want to be nice and offer TouchDRO Plus unlock. Unfortunately, the unlock code is baked into the board now, and the old boards didn't have it, so right now the only way to get it is to have me refresh the board with the V3.0 firmware. The reasons the "free" upgrade will cost $25 are:
1. $2 of that $25 goes to the credit card fees
2. I will have to ship the board back to the customer, which costs around $8-$10 these days (shipping plus packaging)
3. I will need to take apart the adapter, upload the firmware, put the adapter together and retest it. This takes roughly 15 minutes
4. I will need to package the adapter, print the shipping label, and drive the box to USPS (minus the driving, this takes about 5 minutes)

The reasons I'm offering this ONLY to people who bought the $159 adapter is because for all intents and purposes I'm giving away free TouchDRO Plus unlock (which will be eventually available as a standalone upgrade and will probably cost more than $25) and $45/hour rate for the upgrade labor is ridiculously low. Basically this is a courtesy upgrade offer where I ask the customers to cover the shipping a portion of the labor. Also, I can deal with a few dozen upgrades. If I were open this up (even at higher price) to anyone who ever bough a compatible adapter, I will be spending all of my time upgrading the firmware, and I'd rather spend those hours adding more functionality to the app.

Finally, as far as the difference in features goes.
The adapter hardware you have falls between the current kit and TDA-420 adapter (comparison between those two is here: https://www.touchdro.com/resources/adapters/32-bit/feature-comparison.html)

Compared to the current TDA-40T kit, your adapter has touch probe support and four limit switch inputs.
Compared to your current adapter, TDA-420 has USB output, reference track support, probe and tach input that can be used as two additional axis inputs, and data retention on power loss. On top of that, it has the activation key for TouchDRO Plus.

Upgrading the "old" adapter to the V3 firmware adds:
1. Ability to use touch probe and tachometer inputs as an additional axis input (one, compared to two that TDA-420 has)
2. Convert limit switch inputs to reference track input (you'd need additional soldering to install the headers and add a wire to the DB-9 connector)
3. Add TouchDRO Plus activation key

There is no way to add power loss data retention, since the board doesn't have the brownout detection circuit, super capacitor to power the MCU during power loss, and eeprom to write the position.

Hope this makes sense
Yuriy

Well that answers my question on the upgrade also since I had the $109 "kit". You might just want to put a post/picture up saying "if you have (insert picture of $159 unit) I will upgrade it for $25" and avoid the confusion of which ones are eligible and which are not.