Well, since I quoted your post, of course my referring you to my post about giving advice to beginners was aimed at you!
I'm not saying there won't be issues (and in some cases, issues that require the importer to provide replacement components or even accept an RMA).
I was saying that, when providing advice to beginners, rather than using terms like "junk" or "garbage" or indeed "POS"
and dismissing the mini-lathe as a whole class of lathe, it's best to provide general details about the fact that issues with fit and finish aren't uncommon and in some cases, from some importers, serious problems
can pop up.
That provides the 'advisee' with useful, realistic, credible information that they can use to add to their assessment of the worth of mini-lathes generally.
There is also an attitude that all "mini lathes" (aka small enough to fit in a Honda Ridgeline) are the same. The issues specific to the 7x minis have spread to become common knowledge of the issues with all small lathes. Anybody with some experience of the other lathes knows is not the case. Some issues (rigidity, working area) of course are common to all, but the spotty quality control and "pre-assembled kit" issues are most prevalent with the 7x minis.
There were a couple of other things I wanted to say in my previous (far too long
) post about how to give good advice to potential purchasers of mini-lathes, but I clean forgot.
Firstly, even Quinn of Blondihacks fame (who I respect and admire greatly and is easily one of the best educators for beginner/early-intermediate hobbyists on YouTube and generally doesn't suffer from a '
You don't have a Monarch 10? Pfft!" attitude), is guilty of dismissing the potential usefulness of 7x Chinese mini-lathe as a class of lathes in her "How to buy an import lathe" video.
In fact, most YouTubers using Chinese benchtop lathes, whatever their size, seem to take a slightly rueful, apologetic tone about their machines' capabilities. It's almost like they're ashamed of not having US/UK/European old iron that can hog out tool steel at deep DOCs in a single pass.
That's silly of course. If you can do useful work on a tool and teach others useful skills via that useful work, then that tool doesn't need to be apologised for, and
shouldn't be apologised for, as 'apologising' perpetuates that ambient culture of 'macho' machinist gatekeeping we've seen for years (and one that
this place is thankfully, largely free of
).
My one gripe with Blondihacks' lathe buying advice video is it quickly became apparent that she hadn't done much homework and really just knows her lathe. The buying info was fine for the most part, but when she got into comparisons she ended up spreading some of the same bad information that is so common. Not just on the smaller than 10" lathes, but also showed a bias against vintage machines.
People often talk about "the old iron" people, but the opposite attitude that "old iron" is all over priced worn out junk is also quite common. Both are wrong. Vintage lathes can be a fantastic bargain, many of the old lathes were made to a higher standard, with more features than anything you can buy today of a similar size.
They are also old, so yes there is a lot of worn out over priced junk out there. Just as buying a new import lathe it is up to the buyer to know what they are looking at.
The market has spoken. Whether the white-bearded machinist clucks under his breath or shakes his head disapprovingly, people have already chosen the 7x machines as the entry point into machining. Everyone beginner who buys one is delighted and works to improve the machine. The same trajectory can be seen in budget 3D printers. Buy a cheap one and make improvements. The complainers are inevitably people who
- do larger work,
- have worked on lathes that cost 50x or 100x more and won't adjust their techniques, patience, and expectations
- who have a taste for better-quality equipment (that the shop owner paid for) and feel a little entitled
- are signaling virtue, competence, belonging, experience
- spend a lot of time and effort finding used equipment
I think we can safely ignore the opinions of all of these people.
Instead of calling import lathes "junk", we should think of it as "introduction to machining".
The comparison to 3D printing is a good one. The Ender 3s are super popular as entry level machines because they are cheap, and for people who like to tinker ideal. They are kind of tinkering required. Just like the 7x lathes Ender now has options from bargain basement to those that already include many of the popular upgrades.
On the other end you have printers like the Prusa 3, very similar to the Ender 3 on paper, but without the low budget issues and need to tinker. Also 4x the price.
Where the comparison kind of falls down is 3D printing is such young tech, that the "old timers" have only been at it maybe 10-15 years, and there really isn't a vintage market for machines. Even the cheapest entry level printer today is as good as pro stuff from 10 years ago. You take something like a current Elegoo Mars 4 at less than $300, a similar printer just 5-10 years ago would have been $3000-5000.
I don't think a lot of the mini-lathe "haters" are really guilty of anything beyond not seeing beyond their own experience / needs. There is a reason why people looking to start a career are often sent to talk with the most recent hires. This is not just delegating, the new hires are usually the most up to date on the hiring trends. A guy who has been at a company for 15 or 20 years may not even know that all hiring is done online these days, or what the current requirements are. I find the same thing often happens with machining. The people who have been at it "forever" are a great source of info, but can easily forget what they didn't know in the beginning, and having bought their equipment 10, 20, 50 years ago, may be very out of touch with the current market.
Many people buy a larger lathe not to be cool, but because their work requires a lathe of that size. Mini-lathes are primarily used for small hobby work, and others hobbies can easily be seen as just a waste of time to those outside the hobby.
