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Tools are for using not displaying. I call that getting work done!
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Some Ideas for Ease of Use
- Thread starter MontanaAardvark
- Start date
Tools are for using not displaying. I call that getting work done!
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- Jan 3, 2015
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Nice shop.
The reason I asked was comparing spindles. At the speed mine will dial down to, it says 50 RPM on the dial, I figured I could tap a full 3/8-16 hole in about 20 seconds. I could stop it if the spindle started making odd sounds, but my experience with taps is that the first odd sound I hear is "snap!" I think I felt something odd the last time one broke on me. I know there are such things as tapping heads to attach to tools, they're just out of my price class.
I'm not familiar with that brand of mill, though.
My big lathe is the LMS 3540, which is sold as an 8.5 x 20, so "almost" a 9x20.
There's enough room to stand comfortably between the mill enclosure and the lathe.
Turning to the left and backing up a little to get everything to fit.
The G0704, controller box (lower middle - an orange plexiglass top) and the computer that runs it all. You can't see the Ethernet Smooth Stepper that allows me to run three different CNC machines. It's behind the PC on the left. If you look on the right end of the table, you see rough cut Rev.1 of a tooling plate. I need to pull the vise and work on that.
Turn to the left a little more, and see the Sherlines.
The mill is really a Sherline/A2ZCNC combo. To its left are a fully manual Sherline 4400 lathe and a CNC-driven Sherline lathe. I need to work on that; I'm going to replace the original wiring I made for it with an ethernet cable for the better flexibility. Actually, the mill needs some maintenance, too.
Bob
The reason I asked was comparing spindles. At the speed mine will dial down to, it says 50 RPM on the dial, I figured I could tap a full 3/8-16 hole in about 20 seconds. I could stop it if the spindle started making odd sounds, but my experience with taps is that the first odd sound I hear is "snap!" I think I felt something odd the last time one broke on me. I know there are such things as tapping heads to attach to tools, they're just out of my price class.
I'm not familiar with that brand of mill, though.
My big lathe is the LMS 3540, which is sold as an 8.5 x 20, so "almost" a 9x20.
There's enough room to stand comfortably between the mill enclosure and the lathe.
Turning to the left and backing up a little to get everything to fit.
The G0704, controller box (lower middle - an orange plexiglass top) and the computer that runs it all. You can't see the Ethernet Smooth Stepper that allows me to run three different CNC machines. It's behind the PC on the left. If you look on the right end of the table, you see rough cut Rev.1 of a tooling plate. I need to pull the vise and work on that.
Turn to the left a little more, and see the Sherlines.
The mill is really a Sherline/A2ZCNC combo. To its left are a fully manual Sherline 4400 lathe and a CNC-driven Sherline lathe. I need to work on that; I'm going to replace the original wiring I made for it with an ethernet cable for the better flexibility. Actually, the mill needs some maintenance, too.
Bob
Bob,
Likewise on the nice shop.
As to tapping, you have a couple of options short of spending quite a bit of time and money on a closed-loop spindle system with different control software.
1. Tension-compression tap holder. These apparently work quite well. Tormach sells them for use on their 1100/700 mills, and they don't have an encoder or even an index signal. Tapping a blind hole is dodgy unless you have plenty of over-run room, but it can be done. Through-holes are a breeze. You just can't peck-tap because the controller has no idea where in the rotation the spindle is and because of the fact that the compression feature means the thread doesn't start in exactly the same place every hole.
Shars sells a 3/4" shank ER20 floating tap holder for about $100. There are a few from China on ebay for about $80. Press a flange on it, grind the shank to length with a taper on the end, and you now have a TTS-compatible floating tap holder. Or, for $135 you can buy a genuine Tormach TTS floating tap holder.
2. Thread-mill. You've got a CNC mill, why not stretch it's legs? Threadmills aren't cheap, but you could grab an old tap and grind off all the teeth except for one just to fool around with it. Just be sure to grind the tip off so your new single-point thread mill has a full profile. I believe there's a youtube video or two about using a homemade threadmill - have a look.
There are plenty of resources online to help with the code, but basically the thread mill goes down to the bottom of the hole, moves in to the hole side wall to cutting depth, and then does a helical interpolation up at the thread pitch. Repeat at increasing depth of cut until the thread fit is to your preference. You helix up so that you're climb milling rather than conventional, BTW.
Zero spindle feedback needed, and the spindle speeds are probably in a range more suited to your G0704 than 50RPM. If you like thread milling then you can go buy a swanky carbide one and you'll be able to cut a wide range of threads with one tool. Another nice thing is that if you snap one, the shank and cutter are smaller than the hole so getting a broken one out isn't a big deal.
Down side is that the single-point thread mills are slower than a regular tap, and kind of pricey ($25-50 for a 1/4-20 to 56TPI). Big deal, right?
Likewise on the nice shop.
As to tapping, you have a couple of options short of spending quite a bit of time and money on a closed-loop spindle system with different control software.
1. Tension-compression tap holder. These apparently work quite well. Tormach sells them for use on their 1100/700 mills, and they don't have an encoder or even an index signal. Tapping a blind hole is dodgy unless you have plenty of over-run room, but it can be done. Through-holes are a breeze. You just can't peck-tap because the controller has no idea where in the rotation the spindle is and because of the fact that the compression feature means the thread doesn't start in exactly the same place every hole.
Shars sells a 3/4" shank ER20 floating tap holder for about $100. There are a few from China on ebay for about $80. Press a flange on it, grind the shank to length with a taper on the end, and you now have a TTS-compatible floating tap holder. Or, for $135 you can buy a genuine Tormach TTS floating tap holder.
2. Thread-mill. You've got a CNC mill, why not stretch it's legs? Threadmills aren't cheap, but you could grab an old tap and grind off all the teeth except for one just to fool around with it. Just be sure to grind the tip off so your new single-point thread mill has a full profile. I believe there's a youtube video or two about using a homemade threadmill - have a look.
There are plenty of resources online to help with the code, but basically the thread mill goes down to the bottom of the hole, moves in to the hole side wall to cutting depth, and then does a helical interpolation up at the thread pitch. Repeat at increasing depth of cut until the thread fit is to your preference. You helix up so that you're climb milling rather than conventional, BTW.
Zero spindle feedback needed, and the spindle speeds are probably in a range more suited to your G0704 than 50RPM. If you like thread milling then you can go buy a swanky carbide one and you'll be able to cut a wide range of threads with one tool. Another nice thing is that if you snap one, the shank and cutter are smaller than the hole so getting a broken one out isn't a big deal.
Down side is that the single-point thread mills are slower than a regular tap, and kind of pricey ($25-50 for a 1/4-20 to 56TPI). Big deal, right?
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Thanks for the info on that. I essentially just know what thread milling is, but haven't looked at doing it. Since the majority of things I thread are fairly small holes, I was just concerned with tapping by hand. Right now, I have four holes to tap in 4-40 and two to tap 10-32in my tooling plate. I thought all of those are too small for a thread mill. The G0704 being limited to about 2300 RPM is a detriment, too.
I had a rude surprise, yesterday. I pulled my vise off the mill so I can set up to trim my Rev 1 tooling plate to size. The bottom of the vise and the mill table were both rusty. I think I've used my Fogbuster for only a few hours. For sure, I'm still on the first quart and the whole system has only been working since Mid-April.
I'm using the Kool-Mist brand fluid. One of the reasons I bought it was they say it's non-corrosive and a few reviewers on MSC said that they didn't have any rust with it. One reviewer said he adds a little alcohol to the mix to prevent growth of slime that encourages rust.
I sprayed the vise bottom with WD-40 and rubbed it lightly with wet/dry sandpaper. 400 grit, I think. Did the same to the table. It seems deeper than pure surface stain.
I had a rude surprise, yesterday. I pulled my vise off the mill so I can set up to trim my Rev 1 tooling plate to size. The bottom of the vise and the mill table were both rusty. I think I've used my Fogbuster for only a few hours. For sure, I'm still on the first quart and the whole system has only been working since Mid-April.
I'm using the Kool-Mist brand fluid. One of the reasons I bought it was they say it's non-corrosive and a few reviewers on MSC said that they didn't have any rust with it. One reviewer said he adds a little alcohol to the mix to prevent growth of slime that encourages rust.
I sprayed the vise bottom with WD-40 and rubbed it lightly with wet/dry sandpaper. 400 grit, I think. Did the same to the table. It seems deeper than pure surface stain.
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I have no experience with the Kool-mist fliuid. I have used a formula from Tormach, Rustlick 5050 and KoolRite 2290. Of the three the KoolRite 2290 is by far the best I have used for being operator friendly and machine friendly. The Tormach fluid had a strong odor and irritated my skin, the Rustlick 5050 has a mild odor and was easy on my skin but stained every thing, had some light rust issues and was an excellent paint & adhesive remover. With the KoolRite 2290 I have had no rust issues, has a mild odor and does not remove paint or bother my skin.
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I noticed a spot on my powder coated hardware yesterday, thought it was a drip of loctite and promptly pulled up a strip of paint when I rubbed it with a fingernail. I didn't think it might be related to the Kool Mist spray.
I hadn't put 2+2 together about that.
Thanks as always, Jay.
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The Rustlick 5050 attacked the paint and the body filler under it. It was quite amazing where that coolant would get into. On a machine with flood coolant I'm not too concerned how it looks as long as it functions properly. Rust isn't cool. Staining or darkening is okay but not pitting.
I also wonder how the chemical makeup of the city water affects different coolants. I'm sure there are papers on this.
I also wonder how the chemical makeup of the city water affects different coolants. I'm sure there are papers on this.
I find that wiping everything down with FluidFilm before installing a vise or whatever seems to help. I have wicked condensation problems in my garage from time to time, and have spent 2-3 weekends with greenie-weenies getting all my lathe chucks and collets un-funked.
I'm using flood coolant at a pretty high concentration in the mill so I haven't seen any rust inside since I started using fluid film once in a while.
You can get threadmills down to #2; they look like expensive little needles with an itty-bitty head. Frankly, I'd rather trust a threadmill that small than a tap. http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/singleprofileuncoatedthreadmills.aspx
-S
I'm using flood coolant at a pretty high concentration in the mill so I haven't seen any rust inside since I started using fluid film once in a while.
You can get threadmills down to #2; they look like expensive little needles with an itty-bitty head. Frankly, I'd rather trust a threadmill that small than a tap. http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/singleprofileuncoatedthreadmills.aspx
-S
Jay - you raise a good point about the chemical differences of tap water. I use Rustlick 5050 mixed at 30:1 and haven't experienced any issues with rust. Removed my vise earlier this week that has been on the table for three or four months. No rust and only minor discolorization on the table. Must be the northern Cal water!
I use Kool-Mist in my Fog Buster and rust is a problem. Removing the vise and wiping down the table with oil is what I do. A real pain.
Tom S.