Slightly off Topic - Wrench Types and Techniques- Removing Stubborn Nuts

[MikeInOr]

Not really, it does keep them from rusting, but it goes all hard and sticky. What does seem to work pretty good is Maalox (liquid heartburn stuff). I think it's a slurry of talc. Anyway, when it dries it does a real good job of preventing seizing, and heat doesn't seem to bother it.

Great idea. P.S. It is actually calcium carbonite (chalk). With no grease to burn off I can see how it would stand high heat better.

I use anti-seize in my engine compartment and it works very well. I just can't see how it would stand up to the high heat of a turbo though. A quick google search shows calcium carbonate is stable to 880c or 1616f... this sounds more turbo friendly.

 

[dansawyer]

OP Update:
Long story short, I re positioned the manifold-turbo in the space available as was able to get a box end on it; however without success. After several attempts I decided to cut the steel oil return tube with a pipe cutter. This provided just enough space to remove the pair. Once home on the bench I used a box end with a 2x pipe extender and very carefully applied slow steady force. This finally worked, the nut came loose. This allow separating the pair and full inspection of the manifold and turbo.
For those interested they were both in C+ condition, the manifold mating surface was not good on 2 cylinders and the turbo had a very small fornt to back 'tick'. I will resurface the manifold and am at 70/30 on replacing the turbo. I am truly stuck on turbo sizing vocabulary to identify the correct turbo. The PO had replaced the turbo and it appears to by one size to small. The correct size has the waste gate control mounted in a different orientation and I am concerned there will be interference from using it.
Thank you all for your help. Dan

 

[Jake M]

You're working on a coach, so before I say this, I'm going to warn you that you need to do a plausibility check.....

the manifold mating surface was not good on 2 cylinders

Not good how? Out of plane or eroded?

It's not a "bad" plan to look at the cylinder head, but if there's erosion on the manifold mating face, check the block with a straight edge.

and the turbo had a very small fornt to back 'tick'. I will resurface the manifold and am at 70/30 on replacing the turbo. I am truly stuck on turbo sizing vocabulary to identify the correct turbo. The PO had replaced the turbo and it appears to by one size to small. The correct size has the waste gate control mounted in a different orientation and I am concerned there will be interference from using it.
Thank you all for your help. Dan

I have no idea which turbos are allowed to "tick" and which ones are not. I will say that if you're changing the turbo, it's an electronic engine that WILL run with some bolt-on modifications, but they're not really happy unless there's a "tune" in there to match.

Cat should know by the ESN what turbo came on it when new. They obviously won't know what the previous owner did.

 

[dansawyer]

I have the manifold on the mill for inspection. Measuring the surface on a good marble flat there is a 40 thou gap between the high and low, it is high in the middle. There is a gap at both ends. The manifold appears to be made from 3 castings. I am wondering if there is some play in the press fitting that allows for some alignment?
I don't have a true straight edge long enough for the entire length, but enough for 4 cylinders, that should give a good indication of the head.
I checked the turbo part numbers and it appears to be undersized; the engine runs hot so my suspicion is the turbo is undersized. That may help explain the manifold warp.
I plan to resurface the manifold. It will be a carefull setup project as the mill travel is 18 inches, enough for 4 cylinders.
(all in all this is a bit like the rusty old car project, each panel removed uncovers more rust behind it. )

 

[Jim F]

That manifold is made in three pieces for a reason.........

 

[woodchucker]

Does antisieze work on bolts that get really hot (turbo temperatures)? I have never tried it? Does the aluminum and copper stick around long enough to be effective after a couple years of high heat and cooling cycles?

I have read good reviews about induction heater nut heaters for removing stuck nuts.

I made the mistake of using a torch on a part that had Loctite LB8150 Silver Grade Anti Seize .. the aluminum melted and bound the parts. It's rated up to 1600F so in most applications its good.. Just not torched...

 

[dansawyer]

That manifold is made in three pieces for a reason.........

Does that mean there is flex on installation? Can I assume there is some movement in the joints when installed? Am I making a mistake by planning on trying to face it?

 

[Provincial]

Each pair of ports should match fairly close. If it wasn't leaking at the manifold/head joints, I wouldn't face those off. If the engine has a one piece head, the head is probably warped to match the manifold.

If you think the turbo is undersized and it is causing overheating, you need to determine which turbo is right, and if this manifold is matched to that turbo. Otherwise you will just be abusing expensive parts in the future.

 

[terry_g]

There should be some movement in the manifold joints. When they are new they can be slid together by hand.
I'm not sure how you could clamp it to the mill table to face it. It could shift if one of the joints is loose
and damage the cutter. You could try clamping it down to a flat surface with the ports against the surface
and see if it will bolt flush.
If need be you should be able to separate the manifold sections and resurface them one at a time.

 

[woodchucker]

just out of curiosity why would a too small turbo cause more heat? I would think too big. I don't have turbo experience.