Shars and Grizzly, Grrr...

[Ultradog MN]

Buy an Aloris or Dorian tool post and holders.
You will cry about the cost but the post you make about them here will be a rave and not a rant.

 

[woodchucker]

Buy an Aloris or Dorian tool post and holders.
You will cry about the cost but the post you make about them here will be a rave and not a rant.

I can buy 5 Bostars for the price of one Aloris... Not all of us can afford the high price of premium equip. If I were to spend that much, I would go to the multifix..

 

[Ultradog MN]

Not all of us can afford the high price of premium equip.

I sometimes wonder if the difference is not so much one of cost but the desire for instant gratification.
It took me a couple of years to piece together the tool post and dozen + tool holders that I have.
Onsies, twosies. Auctions, Craigslist, Facebook, horse trades, etc
I will bet I don't have much more in my set than a guy might have in a new equivalent China set.
But that route took time and some dedication.
On the other hand, is very easy to make a few clicks, then enter your card # and have the stuff on your doorstep in a couple of days.
When it comes to tools and tooling we all want the best stuff we can afford.
The difference is, are we willing to wait for, save for and work for "the good stuff" or do we throw our sense of quality, national prosperity and international poliitical views to the wind for the sake of having it Now.
You will never see me complain about my old and well used tool post and holders not fitting Exactly right.

 

[epanzella]

I can see good and bad in both. On my friends "Piston type" the piston never fully retracted, might have been the way it was designed, so he had to be picky with the tool holders he bought... I am not certain which type the Grizzly has.

Grizzly come standard with the piston type post. Never had a prob with mine and all brands (including no brand) seem to fit it.

 

[woodchucker]

I sometimes wonder if the difference is not so much one of cost but the desire for instant gratification.
It took me a couple of years to piece together the tool post and dozen + tool holders that I have.
Onsies, twosies. Auctions, Craigslist, Facebook, horse trades, etc
I will bet I don't have much more in my set than a guy might have in a new equivalent China set.
But that route took time and some dedication.
On the other hand, is very easy to make a few clicks, then enter your card # and have the stuff on your doorstep in a couple of days.
When it comes to tools and tooling we all want the best stuff we can afford.
The difference is, are we willing to wait for, save for and work for "the good stuff" or do we throw our sense of quality, national prosperity and international poliitical views to the wind for the sake of having it Now.
You will never see me complain about my old and well used tool post and holders not fitting Exactly right.

So Rob Renzetti put out a video today about using a shars chuck, and cleaning it up .. for him it's a GOOD value, yes you need to deburr it.
But like many of us, it's a good value.

I buy many things used, I agree if you can get it used in good to great quality. Avoid the worn out unless you are willing to put time in.. But some of us need something right away. Also not everything is a great deal. Some Chinese stuff exceeds the made in USA quality. I have many times been disappointed by the top names, when I discover that they are not up to snuff.. it happens, so made in USA and Starrett, B&S, PTD, huot, and others etc have had some issues that sometimes make me wonder. Chinese is made to a price point, same as USA made stuff. Get over it. Until quality manufacturing comes back here, if it ever does, I'm going to buy what I can find , buy on auction / local, and buy Chinese.. I go with my eyes open. And sometimes I win, and sometimes I lose. I'll let you guys know both ways so you can make an informed decision.

 

[Ultradog MN]

For the record, it is Not about buying only USA made stuff.
I own tools and machinery that were built in the US. Great Britain, Germany, Spain, Sweden, Taiwan, Poland, Japan, Israel and other countries.
I would gladly buy from France, the Low Countries, all of Scandinavia, Canada, Mexico, South Korea, Latin America, India and other countries.
But there is another element to it too you know.
None of those places above consider us to be their avowed enemy.
There is however one country that does consider us their enemy.
That country is using the profits we send them to increase their hegemony around the world. That country oppresses their people like few other countrys do. That country steals our technology. They are dramatically building up their military.
They have flouted international law and custom. They are engaging in espionage.
They have subsidized their manufacturing in a purposful attempt to flood our country with cheap, ill fitting goods and tools - to the detriment of our own manufacturing base.
That country doesn't care about human rights or environmental issues or fair trade.
That country is simply in it to win and will grind whatever grist it takes to get there.
That country is China.
Where you buy your tools from may not matter to you but it does matter a lot where you buy from.
And I would simply ask that people think about this before they buy a tool solely on the price tag.
Because the true cost of a thing may be much higher than they realize...

 

[woodchucker]

For the record, it is Not about buying only USA made stuff.
I own tools and machinery that were built in the US. Great Britain, Germany, Spain, Sweden, Taiwan, Poland, Japan, Israel and other countries.
I would gladly buy from France, the Low Countries, all of Scandinavia, Canada, Mexico, South Korea, Latin America, India and other countries.
But there is another element to it too you know.
None of those places above consider us to be their avowed enemy.
There is however one country that does consider us their enemy.
That country is using the profits we send them to increase their hegemony around the world. That country oppresses their people like few other countrys do. That country steals our technology. They are dramatically building up their military.
They have flouted international law and custom. They are engaging in espionage.
They have subsidized their manufacturing in a purposful attempt to flood our country with cheap, ill fitting goods and tools - to the detriment of our own manufacturing base.
That country doesn't care about human rights or environmental issues or fair trade.
That country is simply in it to win and will grind whatever grist it takes to get there.
That country is China.
Where you buy your tools from may not matter to you but it does matter a lot where you buy from.
And I would simply ask that people think about this before they buy a tool solely on the price tag.
Because the true cost of a thing may be much higher than they realize...

I agree with most of what you said, but lets be clear....
Most companies are signing away their rights when they manufacture in China. I used to think it was stealing, until I found out that the contracts are written that they are able to use the contract as a license to make the product and sell it how they see fit. I personally would not sign that contract, since I don't want them competing with me.

Almost everything is made in China, Germany has them making tons of things, even though they vowed to avoid that, many other countries as well. Japan, has most of it's brands made there as well.

If we are talking basic human rights, you need to look at our own laws as well. Recent changes in some states allow young kids to work in very dangerous situations. We seem to preach one thing and practice another.

I do view them as a threat right now, not yet our enemy. I think we over extended our chip and software to them. We are in deep crap with our military chips .. we do not know if there is an internal defeat trigger.


I for one would like to get what I can out of them now, for manual machining, in case I need to support the war effort if it comes. CNC is nice, but again, the chips are coming from them. Let's hope it still works if they attack us, or our friends. Also lets hope it doesn't come to that, and tensions die down... No one wins in a war like that. Everyone loses.

 

[WobblyHand]

Guys, veering into politics. You know the rules.

 

[RJSakowski]

Grizzly come standard with the piston type post. Never had a prob with mine and all brands (including no brand) seem to fit it.

On a piston type QCTP, it is the L1 dimension in the Shars drawing that is critical. The actual dimension needs to be this value or greater to ensure fit.

I measured the L1 on a Shars AXA tool holder,using the classic two dowel pins method, to be greater than 1.688" but less than 1.689". Shars specifies 1.687".

 

[Damn Yankee]

Man, did I open a hornet's nest.

I appreciate those who posted with good intentions in trying to help me. I also respect those who posted to defend Shars. You folks made the bulk of this thread. I don't appreciate the unfounded personal attacks from one or two. You folks don't know me at all. I don't understand who it benefits from your personal chiding... unless it was good for you.

To those that defended Shars, except for the catalog, I never said one bad thing about the company. In fact I was mostly flattering. In the conclusion of my post I only mused why any company would drive away a fish (as I was then). They would have made the shipping back the next order because I actually liked their products.

To those who were trying to help by telling me I should measure; I did, and I included those measurements in my last post. The critical distance of the Shars is more than the Grizzly holder measures and the tool post is less than both. From the published and measured distances, it should fit. Dabbler showed where it doesn't fit and to woodchucker, that post was his follow-up: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/shars-and-grizzly-grrr.106579/page-2 - sorry I did not reply to you sooner - there seemed to be a dust-up going on.

Oh, I don't use other company's return policies to fit my parts. I've made some mistakes and chucked it up to learning - that is part of the gig, right?

Cheers.
John