Metal hardening

I missed this thread when it first appeared. Now that I have my heat treating ears up, I'm getting really fascinated and interested in producing some good hardened and tough parts. I love this hobby!

For a beginner like me, O1 seems to be the reccomended steel to practice on, Is there another common name for it? Where's the cheapest place to get 5 gals of tranny fluid? Does it matter what type it is? ie: dexron, type F etc?

Marcel
 
It's true, the terms and definitions tend to get out of control and I've seen this both in many texts and in technical conversations...

Here are some definitions taken from "The Heat Treater's Guide" which is the official publication of the ASM and AISI which gives detailed HT information for virtually every known common metal in production today:

Normalizing: "A homogenizing or grain refining treatment with the aim of full uniformity throughout the part". [Side note by me from further reading: In this condition, the metal will have no internal stresses. When starting with an unknown material, it should be normalized first. A piece that's been hardened before can be "reset" and rehardened after normalizing].

Annealing: "A generic term denoting a treatment consisting of heating to and holding at a suitable temperature, followed by cooling at a suitable rate; used primarily to soften metals and to produce desired changes in other properties or in microstructures".

Stress Relieving: "A process of heating uniformly to a particular temperature then cooling slowly. Often called stress annealing". [Side note from me from further reading: Heavy machining operations and/or welding can cause internal stress. When such operations are complete, stress relieving can be performed. Depending on the original hardness of the part, stress relieving can change the original hardness in which case, the part must be rehardened].

Tempering: "A process on a previously hardened or normalized steel primarily to increase ductility and toughness but also to increase grain size of the matrix". [Side note from me: Tempering is required after heat treating. In virtually all steels, the tempering must be done within 1 hour of heat treating and the part must not cool to below 150F between the heat treating and tempering steps. Many metals require two tempering steps where the second one should occur within 24 hours of the first. -BTW: I have experimented with and noted the differences when procedure is not followed].


I'd like to point out that the mediums used to cool, quench etc are entirely dependent on the material at hand. It's not always done in standing air... It should be done in accordance to what the material requires and it could range from air, to water, to hot oil to sand, ash or salt baths etc... Some materials (depending on size) require martempering and austempering which are two-stage quenching processes performed at different temperature ranges. It reduces the overall quenching shock on a part while still producing the desired hardness. In these cases, multiple mediums are frequently used.

Ray

- - - Updated - - -

Marcel,

For practice, even less expensive metals are fine to work on. 1045 and 4140 come to mind. These are great steels to make things with. 4140 is basically a low-end tool steel. Also, you're going to need a hardness tester to know if you're doing things properly. Indeed, there a cost of entry to this game but, once you get past the hump, it's clear sailing.

ATF: The cheapest is the best. BTW: If you really want to work on tool steels, you really should use the proper oil quenchant -but in my case, I used ATF and it achieved the desired/predicted results.

Also, many (but not all) of the air and water tool steels have heat treating temperatures beyond the range of your oven. -Just giving you a head's up... Yes, those materials are easier to quench -at the cost of having higher HT temperatures -that's the trade off.


Ray


I missed this thread when it first appeared. Now that I have my heat treating ears up, I'm getting really fascinated and interested in producing some good hardened and tough parts. I love this hobby!

For a beginner like me, O1 seems to be the reccomended steel to practice on, Is there another common name for it? Where's the cheapest place to get 5 gals of tranny fluid? Does it matter what type it is? ie: dexron, type F etc?

Marcel
 
The steel wool will stay in through holes just fine if you stamp it in tight with a flat nosed punch. If you do not stamp it in tight,it will not do any good anyway. It needs to be tight enough that it makes the hole seem like solid metal to the quench. Don't be alarmed by that last statement. Just tromp fine steel wool down with light hammer blows and a flat nosed punch and you'll be o.k.. I'm not saying you need to try to turn the steel wool into solid metal!! Too hard a hammering job could burst the hole open if it is near the edge,or distort it.

01 distorts less than W1,which is the most treacherous tool steel. But,01 will still distort some. On smaller parts it is not a problem. I prefer to use A2 air hardening steel for tight tolerance punches and dies (01 will be fine here) as it is the very safest about distorting,cracking,etc. The slower the required quench speed,the safer the metal is to harden without distorting or cracking.

To quench very small parts is trickier as they cool off before you can get them into the quench. A good thing to do when trying to harden very small parts is take soft iron stove pipe wire (black iron binding wire). Tie the small parts onto a piece of any kind of steel. Heat them up together,and quench the whole thing.
 
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Ray, thanks for the clarifications of terminology. As a hobby blacksmith (frustrated metal engineer wannabe) I'll definitely peruse my heat treating info a bit more closely

KevinD.

It's true, the terms and definitions tend to get out of control and I've seen this both in many texts and in technical conversations...

Here are some definitions taken from "The Heat Treater's Guide" which is the official publication of the ASM and AISI which gives detailed HT information for virtually every known common metal in production today:

Normalizing: "A homogenizing or grain refining treatment with the aim of full uniformity throughout the part". [Side note by me from further reading: In this condition, the metal will have no internal stresses. When starting with an unknown material, it should be normalized first. A piece that's been hardened before can be "reset" and rehardened after normalizing].

Annealing: "A generic term denoting a treatment consisting of heating to and holding at a suitable temperature, followed by cooling at a suitable rate; used primarily to soften metals and to produce desired changes in other properties or in microstructures".

Stress Relieving: "A process of heating uniformly to a particular temperature then cooling slowly. Often called stress annealing". [Side note from me from further reading: Heavy machining operations and/or welding can cause internal stress. When such operations are complete, stress relieving can be performed. Depending on the original hardness of the part, stress relieving can change the original hardness in which case, the part must be rehardened].

Tempering: "A process on a previously hardened or normalized steel primarily to increase ductility and toughness but also to increase grain size of the matrix". [Side note from me: Tempering is required after heat treating. In virtually all steels, the tempering must be done within 1 hour of heat treating and the part must not cool to below 150F between the heat treating and tempering steps. Many metals require two tempering steps where the second one should occur within 24 hours of the first. -BTW: I have experimented with and noted the differences when procedure is not followed].


I'd like to point out that the mediums used to cool, quench etc are entirely dependent on the material at hand. It's not always done in standing air... It should be done in accordance to what the material requires and it could range from air, to water, to hot oil to sand, ash or salt baths etc... Some materials (depending on size) require martempering and austempering which are two-stage quenching processes performed at different temperature ranges. It reduces the overall quenching shock on a part while still producing the desired hardness. In these cases, multiple mediums are frequently used.

Ray


Ray
 
I used to teach college level metallurgy for tool and die apprentices. It has to do with multiple things. Type of steal 01, A2, H13 etc as they all have different properties and carbon content and different structures once hardened. However once you get them to the proper temp some of them become to hard and you have to draw them back or they are brittle. Search out a good Metallurgy site on the net and do some studying about how the carbon atoms get locked in place to cause the hardness.

Here is an example of hardening, take a metal coat hanger and bend it back and forth a few times until it is hot and then try to bend it back to its original form. It won't do it because you have hardened it and changed the molecular structure of the heated area. You can do a lot of your hardening of small gun parts with a Oxy/Acty torch. Case hardening and a garden hose is very easy to learn as I used to do parts fo dies this way years ago. It is about temp, holding at that temp for a certain amount of time and then how to cool it, quench, air cool to a certain temp and ten heat to a dull red and hold it there to draw it back so it isn't as brittle etc. Very interesting stuff. My wifes uncle is the head metallurgist for Inland Steel...very quiet guy, but smart as hell when it comes to metallurgy! I always call him and ask him if I have a difficult question.
 
RE: Quench oils

The ONLY reason to use ATF or other 'home quench oils' is convenience. Try it a couple of times? One off job? Sure. Anyone trying to harden steel seriously (except 10xx series and W-X series steels...they require water based/brine for extremely fast quenching) should invest in real quench oils. It is easy to find them. Go to mcmaster.com and type "quenching oil" in the search box. A gallon is less than $20. 5 gallons is less than $80. That is comparable to the cost of new ATF, so why buy ATF!?!?!?

Take that variable out of your shop. Call it 'using the right tool for the job'. You'll thank me later. Other methods work, and the results may be indistinguishable for your needs, but the real quench oils are better. In this case more than many, better tools==better products.

How are quench oils better you ask?
  • Predictable
  • Repeatable
  • Low flammability/high flashpoint
  • oxidation control
  • No metal contaminants (old motor oil is really bad here)
  • Stable
  • Low toxicity
  • Predictable
  • Repeatable

Virtually all of the home solutions fail one or more of the above criteria.
 
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The use of "super quench" has come up here and on another forum. I HAVE USED IT(rather,I have TRIED it,and discarded it),and it only gives a certain SMALL amount of extra hardness to mild steel. It is not a miracle cure for making soft steels hard. It will not make parts hard enough to use it for making gun parts like trigger sears and other things that must NOT wear out,or your gun could go off all by itself. Or,even go full automatic suddenly in certain designs.

I certainly did not get enough hardness from mine to make a cold chisel. Please wait till you have tried a folk lore technique before thinking it is gospel.

I encourage everyone to bear safety in mind when making parts for guns comes up. Incorrect or misleading information is not to be given lightly when guns or other critical things are involved. Be careful what you advise,please,when guns are involved.

Even IF you could get enough extra hardness with super quench,you would still not get any wear resistance. That requires a decent amount of carbon,at least. Some other alloys will help in the more sophisticated steels,but 01 is an easily obtained steel,and suitable for internal parts. Cylinders and frames need more careful research on what steels to use.

In the interest of safety,I may have to delete incorrect information given about hardening steels used in gun parts. This includes incorrect selections of steels also. It is not worth someone getting shot or killed.
 
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