Leaking Oil Help

I don't know if this came up, and it occurred to me as I was servicing my new PM 1440TL - the headstock and gearbox do not have a vent.

The oil fill caps seal the compartments, everything gets warm/hot when running, internal pressure builds, pushes the oil past the seals. Pressure needs to go somewhere.

Not saying this is the problem here, but could be a contributor. IF this was the problem, then every lathe out there would be leaking.

Vented caps are in my future.
I just VENTED my 1440 headstock a few days ago. Brand new lathe, during the 2 hour 40 minute break-in oil pushed out through the top cover gasket making a proper mess. I believe pressure built up during that wide open throttle break in and it escaped via the point of least resistance, the headstock cover gasket, pushing some splashed oil out with it. The fill cap on top of my gear head mill has a vent hole, now my lathe does also.
 
The issue I'm running into now is that when I reinstall the face plate with the knobs on it, they randomly stick, and can't be turned. I have redone it twice now, and different ones stick with varying levels of resistance. It's not from tightening to much because the gasket material tells me to hand tighten just enough to let the goop squeeze out then let it sit for an hour while it firms up. I checked the knobs at that point and two were sticking.

At this point I am going to call a lathe mechanic to see if they can get it working. I may be doing more harm than good at this point.
 
Back at post 18, you posted some pics of the gearbox with the cover removed.

Take another picture of it with the cover off again and post it with the original picture.

One of us might see something that is off.
 
First off, I don’t have your lathe nor have I worked on that particular model. However, I have worked on quite a few lathes and gearboxes through the years, so I’ll give it a shot.

First regarding your current problem of reassembling the feedbox cover – Make sure that each feed gear is engaged in a particular position and that the corresponding knob agrees with that position. It is possible that you’re just out a gear tooth or two on the shifting rack. You may have to try a few different combinations to get the correct timing. You might also consider doing a dry run with no gasket or sealant.

I also noticed that the shafts for the shifting blocks are secured in the feedbox at the castings with what looks to be a set screw. It is possible that the position of these shafts has been rotated or shifted during a reassembly attempt?

Also, I wasn’t sure whether the gearbox cover was pinned or dowelled. If not, you may need to try shifting the cover around to get the position right.

As far as the leaks go, this is what I would do. Pull the feedbox off the bed and set it on a bench. Then clean the headstock and everywhere you can reach and make sure oil isn’t running down from the headstock.

I would probably completely disassemble this feedbox, but you may not be comfortable with that. Just remember that fixing leaks is all about cleanliness. At the very least, wash out the bottom of the gearbox with some brake fluid and dry it, and clean off all the paint on the mating surfaces. I make my own gaskets either with paper gasket material for precision surfaces or rubberized cork for covers and non-precision surfaces. Also ditch silicone sealants and consider using Hylomar sealant. It is much easier to work with on machine tools and less likely to contaminate oiling systems – especially in headstocks.

I would get rid of all the Chinese-made seals and replace them with good quality seals. You may be able to reuse bearings if they are smooth, but a better choice would be Koyo or SKF, but of course that’s your decision.

Pull any endcap bearing cover and reinstall with new gaskets and Hylomar. Also check that any through bolt holes are either sealed with Hylomar when they are cleaned or use copper compression washers. (I make mine.) And don’t forget to flush the blind holes with brake fluid and you might run a tap through them.

If all your mounting bolts are external, you can put the cover back on while the feedbox is setting on the workbench. It would be much easier to get everything aligned and shifting correctly this way.

Also regarding headstock covers – if this is just a gasketed cover, I usually make a rubberized cork gasket, clean the headstock cover mounting surface with lacquer thinner to get off any oil. Then use contact sealant on the headstock cover sealing surface and install the cover gasket on this surface, remount the headstock cover and let it set overnight. Next day pull the cover off and smear a little anti-seize on the face of the gasket (not too much). This will make the headstock cover gasket where it won’t stick to the headstock thereby making it reusable without any additional prep.

Venting shouldn’t be necessary on an oil lubricated headstock in a lathe. All that I’ve ever seen use a labyrinth seal front and back on the spindle. This is a wet side/dry side seal. It by nature has a gap. Excess pressure in the headstock vents out of these seals. It is a non-contact seal.

I know this is kind of long, but leaks can be complicated. Never let anyone tell you it is just a leak.

After I’ve written all this, I had one more thought. Since this is a brand-new machine and I assume still under warrantee, is it possible you could send the feedbox back to Precision Matthews as a unit to be either repaired or replaced?
 
First off, I don’t have your lathe nor have I worked on that particular model. However, I have worked on quite a few lathes and gearboxes through the years, so I’ll give it a shot.

First regarding your current problem of reassembling the feedbox cover – Make sure that each feed gear is engaged in a particular position and that the corresponding knob agrees with that position. It is possible that you’re just out a gear tooth or two on the shifting rack. You may have to try a few different combinations to get the correct timing. You might also consider doing a dry run with no gasket or sealant.

I also noticed that the shafts for the shifting blocks are secured in the feedbox at the castings with what looks to be a set screw. It is possible that the position of these shafts has been rotated or shifted during a reassembly attempt?

Also, I wasn’t sure whether the gearbox cover was pinned or dowelled. If not, you may need to try shifting the cover around to get the position right.

As far as the leaks go, this is what I would do. Pull the feedbox off the bed and set it on a bench. Then clean the headstock and everywhere you can reach and make sure oil isn’t running down from the headstock.

I would probably completely disassemble this feedbox, but you may not be comfortable with that. Just remember that fixing leaks is all about cleanliness. At the very least, wash out the bottom of the gearbox with some brake fluid and dry it, and clean off all the paint on the mating surfaces. I make my own gaskets either with paper gasket material for precision surfaces or rubberized cork for covers and non-precision surfaces. Also ditch silicone sealants and consider using Hylomar sealant. It is much easier to work with on machine tools and less likely to contaminate oiling systems – especially in headstocks.

I would get rid of all the Chinese-made seals and replace them with good quality seals. You may be able to reuse bearings if they are smooth, but a better choice would be Koyo or SKF, but of course that’s your decision.

Pull any endcap bearing cover and reinstall with new gaskets and Hylomar. Also check that any through bolt holes are either sealed with Hylomar when they are cleaned or use copper compression washers. (I make mine.) And don’t forget to flush the blind holes with brake fluid and you might run a tap through them.

If all your mounting bolts are external, you can put the cover back on while the feedbox is setting on the workbench. It would be much easier to get everything aligned and shifting correctly this way.

Also regarding headstock covers – if this is just a gasketed cover, I usually make a rubberized cork gasket, clean the headstock cover mounting surface with lacquer thinner to get off any oil. Then use contact sealant on the headstock cover sealing surface and install the cover gasket on this surface, remount the headstock cover and let it set overnight. Next day pull the cover off and smear a little anti-seize on the face of the gasket (not too much). This will make the headstock cover gasket where it won’t stick to the headstock thereby making it reusable without any additional prep.

Venting shouldn’t be necessary on an oil lubricated headstock in a lathe. All that I’ve ever seen use a labyrinth seal front and back on the spindle. This is a wet side/dry side seal. It by nature has a gap. Excess pressure in the headstock vents out of these seals. It is a non-contact seal.

I know this is kind of long, but leaks can be complicated. Never let anyone tell you it is just a leak.

After I’ve written all this, I had one more thought. Since this is a brand-new machine and I assume still under warrantee, is it possible you could send the feedbox back to Precision Matthews as a unit to be either repaired or replaced?

I appreciate your in-depth response.

1. I have removed and reinstalled the faceplate several times now. Each time, I have made sure to keep the knobs and gears in the correct orientations. At least as far as I can tell.
2. The lower shaft was the only one that was removed. It does have a groove for the set screw, but there is no flat for the screw to rest against. The set screw just keeps it from sliding out, not from rotating.
3. The cover is pinned, so I don't see any way the cover could be too far out of alignment.
4. I realized that the gearbox could be removed, but after looking at it, I'm not comfortable with doing that. I have lined up a lathe mechanic through here that I will be calling after the holiday, so hopefully he can get this done the right way for me.

I did have the leak fixed after the first reinstall, but that just led to this gears issue. Every time I install the plate a random number and group of the knobs get stuck and will not rotate. Each time I have installed it the stuck one(s) have been different. And I'm not overtightening them because I have also checked them before tightening them down and they were still stuck and/or stiff to rotate.

I'll see what happens with the lathe mechanic, and if he says to try shipping it back for warranty replacement I will be happy to do that.

Thanks again.
 
Well,

The mechanic fell through somewhat. He did give some advice and help over the phone, but understandably he’s just too busy to travel here to help out.

I cannot get this gearbox back together without the shift blocks binding up. I’ve taken this apart and reassembled it at least a dozen times. I even removed the gearbox from the lathe and laid it on its back to see if that would help get everything to line up. No luck.


Here’s the way it sits now. Those shift blocks want to rotate when the face is installed. After it was recommended that I try using grease to keep the brass parts “stuck” to the gears while I reassemble it, that’s not working. I’ve tried using along thin screwdriver through the drain hole while lining up the faceplate. I can’t get them both to line up together then stay while tightened down.
The brass part on the right has been tried in that orientation, and rotated 180 degrees, neither way works.
IMG_5337.jpeg


I’m open to any other ideas you may have on how to do this.


I’ve already messaged PM to see if they’ll offer to help with this if I send it back, but won’t get that answer until next week.

I figure I’ll ask here one more time if there’s anyone that knows a lathe repair guy around the Atlanta GA area that would help me out a lot.
Or hell, if one of you are willing to do it I’ll pay to ship it to you and pay for you to ship it back. (Within a reasonable distance, lol)
We can figure out whatever payment you would like.
 
I think the source of your problem more than likely is that the shifting block shaft is rotating causing it to pinch those shifting knob gears when you are trying to assemble it. Make sure that the shifting forks are in the same position they were when you opened it up. They likely only go one direction. You might try holding the shifting blocks by hand with the cover off and seeing if the gears will shift. If it won’t shift with you holding the blocks square, it won’t when it is assembled.

If I remember right, the blocks slide on a key. You may end up having to eliminate the shaft rotation. I thought I saw on the drawing a set screw, but I’m not sure I see it on the gear box. If it is not there or it is not holding, you may end up needing to put a dutchman in one end of the shaft or perhaps install a taper pin. You will need to make sure the taper pin is drilled and tapped and large enough to get a small cap screw to thread in the pin as these would be blind pins. This would be the only way to remove them. I also noticed on the drawing that those shafts have an o-ring so you would have to stay clear of that. Another possibility might be to simply pull the shafts out a little bit, clean them with some lacquer thinner and use Loctite on the end of the shaft – as long as there is a way to knock it out in the future. There are many ways to accomplish this.

It also looked like the cover had two roll pins for alignment. Tap those back flush with the inside face. This will allow you to install the cover slightly low and push the gears up to the rack reducing the chance of causing the blocks to rotate. But investigate how they have those shafts secured. It looks like there are some pads that these shifting blocks set against. It could be when it is assembled, the shaft rotation may not be quite as important as the pads might keep the shifting blocks from rotating.

I assume each shifting knob has a dent ball and spring for a positive location so that the handle will snap into position. Is that correct? Make sure whatever position those are in, the gear in the feedbox corresponds to it or the timing will be off.

You’re close. You just need to try a few things and eliminate a few possibilities.
 
Just a thought, Leave the part on the right side of your pic laying flat like it is, Then take the gear box and pick it up and lay it on top of the part on the right, Gravity will help keep the shifter blocks from binding. That is just what I would try.
 
You also need to be able to jiggle the shift knobs to get the gears to mesh. The other thing is, I hope you made note of where the blocks were when you pulled it apart, And where the knob locations were. Otherwise, The settings aren't going to match your thread/feed chart.
 
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I feel for ya.
Well,

The mechanic fell through somewhat. He did give some advice and help over the phone, but understandably he’s just too busy to travel here to help out.

I cannot get this gearbox back together without the shift blocks binding up. I’ve taken this apart and reassembled it at least a dozen times. I even removed the gearbox from the lathe and laid it on its back to see if that would help get everything to line up. No luck.

All I can say Is WOW.

I honestly feel your pain Sir having to tear apart your machine, then try and figure out how to get it back together again. So sorry you have to go thru this.

I literally gave away an old 12X36 Lathe free just because I didn't want to deal with what your going through.

An now after seeing what your having to go through and my own previous personal experience, I'm thinking about selling my brand new still on the crate PM-1236T for something that wont spew oil a couple years down the road.

Recently I was in the market for a new mill, then a person on here posted a thread that his gearhead mill is now leaking oil. Seeing that instantly crippled my need or want for a new mill.

I have my fingers an toes crossed hoping somebody can help you out.
 
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