How would you go about this machine purchase?

[RaisedByWolves]

Found a machine I want even though I already have the exact model. The reason I want this one is it’s nearly new even at 20yrs old while mine has slight wear and cosmetic issues.

The problem is the seller has no idea of market value given what equipment it should have but lacks.

It is a lathe, no change gears, one chuck and toolpost, but nothing else that would normally be purchased when buying a lathe.

These machines are niche machines and are no longer produced so readily available add ons ( steady/travel rest, change gears) are not a guaranteed option and will likely be pricy if they can be found.

The machine is priced in line with the “new” machine price from a reputable machinery’s web site, but that is only a defunct listing and I’m pretty sure this is where they got their idea of what its value should be.

They started at 2k for a machine that should sell for $800-$1000 in my opinion.

They have so far dropped the price a bit in talking with them, but while I want it, I get the feeling they it’s a “what’s mine is gold” or “ This was pop pops” kind of situation and I know for sure they have no idea of what it’s actually worth or what to expect to get for it.

I want to try to explaining the situation to them in terms that will not be off putting, but at this point I’m afraid a good or even high end offer from me will feel like an insult and I don’t want to put them off for good

How would you proceede?

 

[Dabbler]

I've been there.

Don't make the explanation long and confusing. I usually state the 3 most important points:

1) Machine isn't rare enough to get more than 1/3 new price in perfect condition with every accessory.
2) Missing parts, such as missing 4 jaw chuck and missing change gears drops the price a lot.
3) My firm price is 900$ - expect lower offers; when you are ready call me.

I have done this exact pattern 7 times in 40 years. The buyer came back to me (sometimes a year later) to pick up my purchase at the agreed price 4 times out of the 7. Only once did as buyer try to wheedle more money out of the deal after 3 months - at 20% more. I declined and rescinded my offer, saying that it was too late and I had found something else. (I didn't - but after a firm offer, I won't negotiate).

 

[GeneT45]

If you're not willing to pay the asking price and don't want to offend with a low offer your only choice is to wait it out, hoping they drop the price to something you're good with and/or you decide that it's worth what they're asking. I don't see any great slam-dunk approach.

GsT

 

[CJ5Dave]

Today anything a person inherits or otherwise gets and is unsure of value is vintage solid gold to them. Waiting without offers may be the only reality to them.

 

[SouthernChap]

@Dabbler has absolutely nailed it. "Mic' drop", as the kids say.

It's pretty much what I've always tried to do for any used item with the kind of downsides you've stated. Weirdly, I've been much less successful at keeping self-discipline with this hobby than with other past hobbies!

 

[SouthernChap]

Today anything a person inherits or otherwise gets and is unsure of value is vintage solid gold to them. Waiting without offers may be the only reality to them.

It's especially bad in the UK with Myford ML7s and Super 7s. It doesn't help that the current owner of the Myford Brand (RDG Tools) is making new ML7s and Super 7s and selling them at an exorbitant price. Don't know how they stay in business really.

 

[Choiliefan]

Does the seller actually know anything about lathes, tooling and their applications?
If not, keep up the communication with them. Perhaps the planets will align at some point soon and you'll have a new lathe.

 

[mmcmdl]

I looked at 2 Atlas lathes a mile up the road from me a couple years back . Both lathes were in pieces and scattered thru out the old guys shed .He wanted $2000 for both lathes . The son was doing the selling end of things and didnt know squat about machines . I made him an offer to clear the shed out explaining these were not lathes , but major projects . I showed him this site and what complete running machines were selling for . He would not budge an inch so I walked away . He had a nice little shaper up there as well which I made him an offer on also . Same , wouldn't budge on price . After the father passed , the guy kept calling me to come back up and make him an offer on it all . I told him I wasn't interested until he came back to earth with his expectations of the machines . He's still calling , still advertising , and still has these things in a shed that has to be cleared out . I took pics and posted them on here somewhere . They'll end up paying someone to haul this crap to the dump one rainy day to clear the place out .

Before I left last week , I went over to the neighbors place to drop some chairs off . He has a BP , surface grinder and lathe he needs to get rid of . Some of these are up in Pa. and the rest across the street . I'm going to ask him straight up what the machines are worth to him . He already has a full size running machine shop for his profession. If I don't feel comfortable with his expectations , I walk away without insulting him . I know he doesn't have the time to get rid of these as he travels the NHRA circuit and is never home .

Wait for a rainy day , take cash , and be ready to load up . That's how I buy AND sell . Jason will attest to this .

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Does the seller actually know anything about lathes, tooling and their applications?
If not, keep up the communication with them. Perhaps the planets will align at some point soon and you'll have a new lathe.

Not at all.

They gave a video where they could turn it on and engage the lead screw, but were unable to comprehend why it moved a different way than the last time they turned it on.

They were running the motor different directions is all. When I enquired if it had any of the usual equipment they felt it was complete as is.

I mean, they only know what it is based on what they have, so I understand where their heads are at I’m just not sure how to approach the situation.

I may link to this thread depending on how things proceed to give them more insight if need be.

As to recouping some of the outlay for this machine via selling my other, same model lathe, yeah, but I’m then stuck in the position of then selling a lathe that does not have what a user will be expecting it to come equipped with.

And someone in that position, who understands the hobby will certainly understand the difficulty and high cost, not to mention the time, of hunting down and buying these items.

If you can find them.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

I looked at 2 Atlas lathes a mile up the road from me a couple years back . Both lathes were in pieces and scattered thru out the old guys shed .He wanted $2000 for both lathes . The son was doing the selling end of things and didnt know squat about machines . I made him an offer to clear the shed out explaining these were not lathes , but major projects . I showed him this site and what complete running machines were selling for . He would not budge an inch so I walked away . He had a nice little shaper up there as well which I made him an offer on also . Same , wouldn't budge on price . After the father passed , the guy kept calling me to come back up and make him an offer on it all . I told him I wasn't interested until he came back to earth with his expectations of the machines . He's still calling , still advertising , and still has these things in a shed that has to be cleared out . I took pics and posted them on here somewhere . They'll end up paying someone to haul this crap to the dump one rainy day to clear the place out .

Before I left , I went over to the neighbors place to drop some chairs off . He has a BP , surface grinder and lathe he needs to get rid of . Some of these are up in Pa. and the rest across the street . I'm going to ask him straight up what the machines are worth to him . He already has a full size running machine shop for his profession. If I don't feel comfortable with his expectations , I walk away without insulting him . I know he doesn't have the time to get rid of these as he travels the NHRA circuit and is never home .

Wait for a rainy day , take cash , and be ready to load up . That's how I buy AND sell . Jason will attest to this .

Yeah, sometimes people think the longer they sit on something the closer they are to getting their asking price. That might be true with antiques, but something sitting idle and unused will often suffer from a higher degree of entropy than something being actively used.

The wiring, switches and capacitors are already 20-25 yrs old, and not being a wear item suffer the effects of time regardless of how much use the item has seen.

I think I’ll try to get a phone number and talk to someone in charge of the sale in person to explain where we differ on value.