Best "Value" Lathe Chuck, & Backplate Interchange?

You should apply marking compound or prussian blue to the plate and check its fit on the spindle.

I would not expect any part made by one entity to perfectly match another's. When you are fitting parts up to .0005", there is no such thing as out-of-the-box fit. In other sectors, when people talk big precision and assemble parts without individual fitting, I usually snicker about who the moron in the room is (like maybe an AR15 forum). Here, I would say that some fitting is expected, you should check for it and make the required fit adjustments using sound shop principles, and you should expect to do the same any time you are trying to fit parts with that much precision.
 
You should apply marking compound or prussian blue to the plate and check its fit on the spindle.
yes!

My experience is that a Pratt chuck backplate fits my D1-6 perfectly from the factory, and a Misc backplate from England fit my lathe perfectly as well.

I've had to fit offshore backplates for d1-4 before, and it isn't too bad. They can be lapped in if you go slowly and carefully. Impatience is a severe detrement when fitting a backplate.
 
Speaking of lapping...

If lapping grit is put on the taper, won't that cut both the backplate AND the spindle taper? I suspect the spindle taper is on the large side of the tolerance range, but still. Is this a good idea?
 
Speaking of lapping...

If lapping grit is put on the taper, won't that cut both the backplate AND the spindle taper? I suspect the spindle taper is on the large side of the tolerance range, but still. Is this a good idea?
OH MY -- GOOD POINT!!

I was referring to lapping using fine grit wet and dry paper, using a wooden stick. Not lapping using lapping compound. I forgot my context here! I'm sorry for not being specific enough!!!
 
So, I bought a PM Ultra Precision chuck, and guess what? The backplate doesn't seat on my lathe spindle. Scoreboard now reads: Shars 6" backplate + PM Collet chuck backplate + PM Ultra Precision backplate = NO FIT on the lathe spindle. It seems clear that something isn't right with the spindle.

I need to spend a little more time on this, but an indicator on the spindle taper shows minimal runout, so I don't think the spindle itself is bent or noticeably damaged. It just seems to be on the large end of the tolerance range. I think it's time to explore a very very slight lapping of the spindle taper. I know this is not a normal situation, but that seems preferable at this point considering the alternative of trying to skim the female ID of the chuck backplates. That sort of project is much more difficult, and I'm not set up for it.
 
Speaking of lapping...

If lapping grit is put on the taper, won't that cut both the backplate AND the spindle taper? I suspect the spindle taper is on the large side of the tolerance range, but still. Is this a good idea?
Its not desirable but it would only be a slight change in tolerance if used fine grit. We used that on race engines years ago to fit tapered fly wheels. Maybe flake it??
 
You can safely lap your headstock, and since it seems oversized, this is a reasonable way to go.

--Do you have access to another machinist with the same taper that has a Pratt-Burnerd or other High end chuck to be absolutely sure your taper is wrong? Have you had another experienced machinist have a look at it to catch anything you might have missed? It would be well worth the 50$ or 75$ fee to have a professional with long experience to pay a house call and check.

I know that this has been covered before, but I need to say it again. The D1-X camlock system is intended to lock onto the taper HARD. You should need a sharp blow from a plastic deadblow hammer to free it. When your chuck is fully mounted, bluing die will transfer from the chuck to the headstock in the flat radial seating area. That is both the taper and the radial flat must make intimate contact for a d1-x to function at its best. I hope your problem is that the mount is not seating all the way to the flat.

To clear up a few points:

1) Your headstock had better be heat treated steel to be strong enough. There is no problem in embedding diamond or AO grit into the steel, if the lap is prepared properly and is of a soft material. I prefer aluminum for my diamond lapping. but brass is way better, and copper, better still.
1a) to prepare the lap, you must use pressure and a steel roller to drive the grit into the lap. this is an essential step before starting lapping. You wash the excess grit off the lap before lapping. Sloppy machinists don't bother, and get embedded diamond in the wrong places as a result.
2) You do not use enough pressure to transfer the grit to the steel. Lapping is a finesse sport and gentle pressures are more than enough. High pressure causes many problems, too many to go into here.
3) it is imperative to get a tenths (or better yet a half tenths) indicator and set up your compound to the angle of your taper (assuming it is correct). Novice lappers tend to cut more in the centre of a lapping operation resulting in a concave curve (dishing). You use the compound and your indicator to catch any serious deviations. Bluing is a necessary step after lapping to ensure a proper fit.
4) you lap only until you just get transfer of THICK bluing onto the flat. Then you must wash everything, and check the taper for good fit, and remediate the taper. By doing this the seating is increased by an astonishing amount, usually enough to get thin bluing to transfer.
 
@Nesse1 I forgot to say that using the indicator also prevents you from changing the angle of the taper, a very common mistake when lapping...
 
Thanks to all who have responded in this thread. I'm just now getting back to this situation, after finishing my homebuilt lathe stand, and getting a DRO installed.

So, latest development, I brought both of my new PM lathe chucks to where I work, the ones that won't seat on my lathes spindle, and both fit just fine on a different lathe (a Republic-Lagun Turnmaster lathe.) Both snugged down with no gap to the spindle, and required a light hammer tap on the chuck to release from the taper. I also brought the Kitagawa chuck, that does fit my lathe, and on the Turnmaster, the backplate taper fits a little loose; no hammer tap needed to get the chuck to release. Conclusion: my lathes spindle taper is a little FAT, compared to the Turnmasters.

Next step: stone the spindle taper on my lathe. I've never done such a thing, and would welcome suggestions on how to accomplish this without risk of damaging the spindle.

My thinking, angle the compound to match the spindle taper, then use some sort of "stone" to lightly kiss the spindle taper. Any suggestions on what stone to buy? Or anything else I should be managing? I've never done anything like this before and open to suggestions.
 
disclaimer: I will be using caps a lot here for emphasis. I am not shouting at you but there are essentials you had better not miss.

@Nesse1 I've been doing machining for a very long time, and have done some very tight tolerance work. I would approach doing this job with extreme caution... With patience, attentiveness, and good research, what you want to do might be accomplished as a first-timer, but BE VERY CAREFUL.

The downside is a new spindle from PM. Arm yourself in the worst possible case by finding out what Matt will sell you one for, considering all the circumstances. I am sure that it is in both your best interests to try to fix what you have.

Do you know of a *really good* tool and die maker that can teach you lapping? this will help a LOT.

--------------

To answer your question: Stoning is only one early step of several.

1. As @ponitiac428 and others have mentioned, you have to 'blue in' your spindle on a known 'perfect' chuck - which is likely one you have. You may already know how, or you might get some experienced guy at work to show you. Bluing for the first time takes instruction, an no amount of text description can get you to a place where you know you are doing it well.

1a. I personally only use "Prussian Blue" for bluing in, as you can get a *really thin* coat. Some guys coat the spindle, as you can more easily apply and control the thickness of the blueing compound. What you need to know is how much contact you have on your current spindle and where that contact is.

1b. For the most accurate mitigation of you spindle, you would have to blue your chuck taper and print it onto the spindle. Then you have direct evidence of what you need to do. There is a slight possibility that your spindle taper angle is slightly wrong, and what you have to do is change the wider portion of it. WITHOUT THIS STEP, YOU ARE FLYING BLIND, AND YOU ARE DEPENDING ON GOOD LUCK FOR A GOOD RESULT.

2. From the bluing step you may find the large part of the taper is too big, the smaller part is too big, or the whole taper makes good contact, but is just plain too big. This will be used to direct the efforts in step 3. Some things to think about - you have to go super slow. Every thou you take off id diameter of the taper results in 8 thou of movement of the chuck toward the seat.

3. You have to cover your ways in from of your spindle as you can end up with abrasive and metal bits where you don;t want them. you HAVE to use a lubricant when you are stoning for best results and swarf removal. If your stone gets loaded, you have to redress your stone and/or move to a clean section.

4. I believe you stated you had some 6 thousandths gap, so you would then know you are taking less than 1 thousandths off, of average. To do this you need to get a pristine die stone in the 400 or 600 range to start. I use Geiswein stones for their consistent quality (no affiliation). You should use a wide enough stone for control and avoid 'gouging' on the edge. If you have a very light touch, you can use a 1/2" wide by 1/4" thick stone, but if you are a beginner, you should start with a 3/4 or 1" wide stone. Use a backer for the stone of a paint stick or 3/4" wood to support the stone if you are new to this. I usually use a backer and I've done this before.

4a. After stoning, you have to print the taper... again. To do this you have to clean your taper THOROUGHLY. You will be doing this a bunch of times so you will get used to it. The goal is to keep or develop good contact. - that is, a consistent blue mark over as much of the spindle as you can get. You have to aim for perfect fit, but 75% will do if it is all the way around, and touching all the way across as well.

4b. Notice we haven't addressed getting closer to the seating surface, but just dressing the taper. You have to keep altering the taper until you get that good printing surface.

4c. Now that you have good printing, you set your compound with a tenths or half tenths indicator to do extra checking. You keep stoning and checking with the indicator and the bluing until you get to...

5. Once you are getting within a couple of thousandths or less you begin to move to a finer grit - 600 to 1000, for instance. 1000 is still not a proper finish to use for mounting your chucks, so when you are getting to ALMOST contact you have to turn to lapping. Again more taper checking and bluing.

6. For a beginner I wouldn't try lapping with lapping paste. You will get better result by using a 1" wide parallel (or substitute) with 3M lapping film taped to it. You need a really good flat surface (provided by the parallel) and you can get down to insane levels with this film, and it is not too expensive. DO NOT USE EMERY cloth, even at the higher grit numbers. The grit range on standard cheap emery cloth or paper is wider than you want to get the right finish, and polishing out scratches is a thankless task that wastes hours for about 10 bucks of proper lapping film. Another thing. You always lap using a lapping surface, such as a parallel or ground flat surface. Do not 'loop' the lapping film around the taper and holdit with your fingers. You won't get an accurate flat taper, it will just look shiny. The goal here is that you want the cams to draw - with some force - the chuck to the seat. You can apply enough pressure on the cams to bring a chuck quite a ways -at least 10 or 20 thou in D1-6, so perhaps 7 or 8 thou on the d1-4?

That's it for my brain dump. For about 6 thousandths expect to do at least 8 hours of stoning and checking, and about that again in lapping. By going slow, you won't go 'to far' and make the fix even more complicated, complex and far more time consuming.
 
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