Beauty in The Beast: Webb 5BVK Barn Find/Conversion

[Charlieman22]

Shop is about 1.5 hours south of where I live currently.
Headed down to sign lease mid week.
This discussion excellent warm up.
Will shoot more pics when there.

Jim - that picture is an education on its own. Great!

Thinking through how I might set up.
Variables included cost/complexity/DIY/existing equipment.
Clear now I have some options.

Current thinking:
My TIG welder is a 220 single phase.
So 208 single phase circuit is on the table (will check with manufacturer regarding 208).
5BVK would nicely plug in to a 220 single phase - runs great now as such.
So two outlets - ea. 208 single phase makes sense to me.

As for the 10EE - current set up works - but not ideal in my view.
It runs off 460V 3-PH.
Diagram of existing set up below.

Basic set up. House 220 1-PH, bumped up to 440 through reverse knock down transformer.
Looks like from tag that is only single phase - so might not be able to re-use if I want to get rid of the RPC
Which I do. It's loud, and probably undersized at 5HP. Preference would be to use the 3 phase.

Think what is required is either 3 phase Wye 208 delta to 416 (or 440 or 460) up converter.
Or
Run a 3 phase knock down transformer in reverse.
From what I read - requires "Corner grounded" system (not sure what that means), amongst other things.
Not sure exactly what that means.
Or
Additional 208 single phase outlet - and just plug it in like I have it now with RPC

Any help identifying what Wye up converter would do the job on 3 phase 208 outlet would be welcome.

Existing 10EE



Tag on my 10EE (Sabina DC drive)



Edit - this is the paper work I found in my 10EE RPC cover.
Suspect it is showing the buck converter that takes it from 440 to 460.
Note "Connected" verbiage.
The connected 440 is a picture from the RPC box itslef.
Think it means that the RPC is set up to receive 440.

 

[Charlieman22]

Think I have my solution.
Will take a bit of work when back to California.
On trip now - which included picking this up.

Seller was in Chattanooga Tennessee.
Conversation went something like this:
Hi - I'd like to buy your transformer.
Him: Sure - but they are expensive to ship.
Me: NP - I'll just come pick it up.
Him: Great, where are you coming from.
Me: California.
Long silence...

 

[Charlieman22]

Happy New Year all!
Back on my feet post COVID.
Brutal.
First order of business - sort out the electrical for my machinery.

Three main units (not including std 110V 1-P stuff):
10EE Lathe 3-P 460V
Webb Mill - 220 3-P native. Using 1-P to 3-P VFD.
TIG Welder 220V 1-P

Transformer I purchased above intended for the 10EE. Check.
As for mill:

That 220v motor will be fine running on 208v.

When I first read this - I assumed Firstram meant 208 3-P, and that I would need to set my VFD up accordingly...
(Electrical not being my strength)...
Now re-reading - believe Firstram meant single phase 208V?

If correct - I will be able to run a line of 208 1-P outlets to service both mill and welder.
Seams highly doable.

Thanks.
-CM

 

[JimDawson]

Welcome back!

 

[extropic]

Happy to hear that you survived the bug.

My recollection (I'm not going to search previous replies) is that you said your shop space has a 208V, 3 phase load center.

Your question was, IIRC, how do I power my machines.

I think @Firstram was saying that you can run your Webb directly from the 208V, 3 phase. Implying that the Webb data plate 220V will run just fine on 208V.

However, if you intend to power the Webb with a VFD, that's a different kettle of fish. Just match the VFD to the source power and the load.

Did you locate the breaker(s) that feed the 3P box you pictured?

 

[Charlieman22]

Welcome back!

Thanks. What a long strange trip.

My recollection (I'm not going to search previous replies) is that you said your shop space has a 208V, 3 phase load center.

Good memory. There is a bank of 110 outlets that runs out of the main breaker box.
The breaker box has room for at least one 3-P220 breaker (appears it had one before I had the shop - but it was removed).

I think @Firstram was saying that you can run your Webb directly from the 208V, 3 phase. Implying that the Webb data plate 220V will run just fine on 208V.

However, if you intend to power the Webb with a VFD, that's a different kettle of fish. Just match the VFD to the source power and the load.

This was exactly why I typed my last note.
On re-reading @Firstram's comments - I realized he likely meant that the VFD, as currently wired, would plug in to SINGLE phase 208 and operate just fine. This was what I was trying to confirm.

The VFD should be fine with 208

It should be noted that the next thing he said was "read the manual!".
Said manual is in a box, carefully placed there with many other manuals, carefully placed in a stack of 70 other boxes.
Will be some time before I can dig it out.
Have messaged the company to see if they will tell me if I need to do anything special to run it on 208 - single phase.

Conversely, I assume I could also remove the VFD completely - and rewire the machine to plug in to a 208 3-P outlet
This would mean I would need to add a run of 208 3-P outlets (or at least one).
I prefer the flexibility of having only 208 1-P outlets - as it would mean that I could move my machines around.
Not as crazy as it sounds - welder is a cart - and even mill is on wheels.

Did you locate the breaker(s) that feed the 3P box you pictured?

3P box I pictured previously is shown below to right.
Not certain what you mean by "feed" - likely my lack of knowledge on terminology.
There are three boxes - seen below.
The breaker box is on the left - and it was pictured above - missing a 3P breaker.
If you mean the 3P breaker that was in that box before I moved in - and removed - then... yes - in fact I have located it.
It's in my neighbors shop! Apparently they pulled it from mine and gave it to him just before I found my shop!

 

[Charlieman22]

Edit: found Digital product manual.
Says 220V single phase +/- 15%.
Think Jim found same when he audited his shop.
Meaning - looks like I'm on the right track with 208 single phase row of outlets for this and welder.

 

[Firstram]

When I first read this - I assumed Firstram meant 208 3-P, and that I would need to set my VFD up accordingly...
(Electrical not being my strength)...
Now re-reading - believe Firstram meant single phase 208V?

If correct - I will be able to run a line of 208 1-P outlets to service both mill and welder.
Seams highly doable.

Thanks.
-CM

Yes, 208 single phase! A 220 volt motor would be perfectly happy even if you had a little voltage drop.

All that equipment out there with 230v 1P motors is designed to run on 208 or 240. Unfortunately, when setting up in old industrial settings, the runs are so long voltage drop burns out 230v motors. When I ordered my compressor, I had it built with a 208v 1P 7.5hp motor. It is happy running along on 200v and I use a buck/boost on the rare occasions that we get a shop with 240v.

 

[Beckerkumm]

I'm confused. 208 refers to three phase, three 120v circuits. Generally using two hot leads will still get you 240 single phase. To get 240v three phase the third leg is 208V but the other two are still 120 to ground. Dave

 

[Firstram]

On 3 phase, the hot legs are 120° apart instead of 180° that you see with single phase. You still get 120 from any hot to neutral but, hot to hot should be 208v unless there is a high leg. There are many variations that depend on how the transformers are tapped too. We were in a shop a while back that was was giving us something like 130/240, the tools sprang to life!

You really should measure the voltage between all 3 legs BEFORE you wire anything!