At what point are you considered a "Machinist"?

How about the title Hobby Machinist? I think the title Machinist should be reserved for those that took time to get the formal training and hold either Journeyman’s or Masters papers

I have over 20 years in the business and was trained by some of the most brilliant Tool and Die Makers in the business. I love the work but wouldn’t embarrass myself by claiming to be a machinist.

My hat is off to those in the group who took the time and put out the effort to complete the formal training and chose it as a career.
 
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I'm not sure about the original question, but I'm really clear on a related question: "When do you know you're not a machinist?" In college I wanted to make a part for a vacuum chamber, so I got a book on lathes and read it, then went to the college machine shop and talked to the boss. I told him I knew how to run a lathe, and he said OK and pointed to a South Bend. I went over and fortunately it looked like the one in the book (might have been "how to run a lathe" ) put my material in the chuck and turned it on and whammmm...the chuck key flew out and hit the wall. I was petrified and mortified both. The boss said "well you'll never do that again". And I haven't. To date. At that point I knew I was no machinist.
 
I'm not sure about the original question, but I'm really clear on a related question: "When do you know you're not a machinist?" In college I wanted to make a part for a vacuum chamber, so I got a book on lathes and read it, then went to the college machine shop and talked to the boss. I told him I knew how to run a lathe, and he said OK and pointed to a South Bend. I went over and fortunately it looked like the one in the book (might have been "how to run a lathe" ) put my material in the chuck and turned it on and whammmm...the chuck key flew out and hit the wall. I was petrified and mortified both. The boss said "well you'll never do that again". And I haven't. To date. At that point I knew I was no machinist.
When a company hires someone for their experience they are paying for all the times they #$!% up in the past hoping they learned from it so the company doesn't have to pay for the actual #$!% up.
 
I agree with what several have already said. I guess to answer my own question....I would be a machinist when I satisfactorily complete a specified course of learning to teach me the machinist trade skills. Now, any course will be lacking something, nothing is all inclusive. Conversely, having not completed any training regimen, no matter how skillful I become on my own, I will apply the title "Hobby Machinist" to myself.
Some Hobby Machinist may be able to build parts to a standard that would meet aerospace requirements. Some may not be able to be close to that.
I have enjoyed the discussion. Thank you all, and please continue.

Scott
 
I just say "My Hobby is" Restoring and rebuilding Antique and Vintage machine tools. " Some call themselves machinist when all they do is load and unload stock and use snap gages on CNC production machines. I call those machine operators. If the person can also set up the machine then they are Set Up and Operate. If their only function is to set up different machines for operators to run then they would be Job Setters. Then there are machinist who can build from prints but have their limits. Now the level above Machinist is either Tool maker or Die maker and sometimes referred to as Tool and Die maker. I am none of the above but have been around the "Tool Room for about 45 years and managed the Machinist Tool Makers and Die Makers. All of that being said there is that no name classification that fits into the Machine Builder arena. Not only can they do all of the above, but they can build /diagnose and repair precision machines. Many will disagree with me but Making Chips does not a Machinist make. Forgive me for using the Name "Tool Room" instead of "Machine Shop" In my head a machine shop is not a Tool Room.

By the way if someone tries to pay me to make a part or tool for them, I will chase them out of my shop with a hammer. If I do anything in my shop it is for FUN. Nuff Said.
 
Learned from a professional machinist but I did not have any other schooling or training. He taught me well enough to bring me into the shop he worked at in a tool and die shop in a forge.

I started on kick pins and started my first die impressions a month after I started. They gave us a blue print, template, and a manual lathe...

The dies were for 4,000 ton and 6,000 ton presses. Not sure of the weight but we were talking around 24" diameter and larger and 10" thick. The 2.5 ton jib cranes were often barely able to lift the raw dies. I only worked there for a year before I embarked on my current career since 1999. I have my current career because of my machining skills.

I have acquired the skills to properly operate a lathe, mill, shaper, and surface grinder and most of the tooling associated with those tools. I've learned to set up jobs on all types of machines in conventional and unconventional situations.

I can measure accurately with all the standard types of measuring tools found in a normal machine shop.

I've been successfully completing projects and customer jobs in my hobby shop for near 30 years. I do not feel embarrassed to consider myself a machinist.

The one place I'm lacking is math skills. I'm constantly learning.

I don't see any reason to limit the term machinist to people who took formal training.
 
If anyone has read through this entire thread, I guess by now they have figured out that 'machinist' is just a title that means something different to everyone...

'Machinist' is a lot like 'accurate rifle'... some guys aren't happy unless their rifle can shoot one hole groups at 1000 yards, while others are tickled if they can hit a pie pan at 50 yards...

I once had a co-worker tell me that "$30,000 and 30,000 miles don't make you a biker". I told him that was fine with me... I would still enjoy riding my motorcycle whether I was a 'biker' or not.

My department at work has around 90 machinists (job title)... a former boss has told me several times that, in his opinion, I'm the only 'machinist' there... I don't agree with that, and I don't consider myself to be a machinist.

The point I'm trying to make is, it's a title that means more to the person using it that anyone he may be talking to... the definition can be as broad or as focused as anyone wants it to be.

If you enjoy making chips... or if you are making a living and feeding your family by making chips... that is what is important.

Everything else is just a title...

-Bear
 
I've just read through this entire discussion for the first time. Glad I did. While I've not reached any conclusions about myself, I have come to some realizations.

Background

Three and a half years of liberal arts college.
Four years of knock about jobs, factory assembly, house carpentry, wooden ship (cruiser) building. etc. Then into the Disk Brake Factory. I went, in two years, from "Material Handler" through all the progression of jobs, unskilled and skilled up to "OTS" (own tool setter). Then into (my choice) Tool and Die Maker (apprentice.) Three years and nine months later I achieved "Journeyman Status.", Steel Workers Of America. I was almost immediately offered the Formanship of the night shift tool room. (There were four other journeyman tool makers already there. Why me?) In any case I turned that down in favor of "Group Leader." I wanted to work, not boss. I spent the next four years as group leader, choosing the jobs I wanted to work on and passing the others out to the other guys. I also ran troubleshooting for the nine lines of brake disk machinery.
Situations changed and my family moved to a different town.
I soon had a job in a factory making natural gas compressors. I spent two years there going through the ranks of lathe and mill operators before I got back in the tool room. For a year I had the night shift to myself, then they put two machinists under me for troubleshooting. I had done that and tool making for those two years. Eventually we worked up to four toolmakers under me with the two troubleshooters. I continued to work on projects, developing tooling and fixtures the whole time. I was playing, not working. Loved the job. When the factory purchased two used CNC machines, I was one of the guys who got to play with them. I retired after 20 years with this company. It was non union and was quite liberal with it's employees, I received almost a quarter million dollars as severance pay. This was in 2000 when that was a LOT of money.
I consider that I did the work of "Toolmaker," because I had four toolmakers and two skilled troubleshooters working under me. In retrospect I was a highly skilled machinist, doing management work, too.

Reading about what several of you have accomplished, I'm proud to be part of the group here. I went from hands on machinist to tool designer in my nearly 30 years of work, Near the end I designed a fixture to hold ten parts to be machined in a fully functioning CNC mill. you put ten pieces of steel in the fixture, pushed the button and waited until it quit and removed the ten finished pieces. When I started, that couldn't have been even considered.

Retirement has meant leisure, enjoying life, I now play in a small wood shop, making bowls, and boxes from various kinds of wood. It happens that the love of my life lives in Holland, so I do too.
 
Learned from a professional machinist but I did not have any other schooling or training. He taught me well enough to bring me into the shop he worked at in a tool and die shop in a forge.

I started on kick pins and started my first die impressions a month after I started. They gave us a blue print, template, and a manual lathe...

The dies were for 4,000 ton and 6,000 ton presses. Not sure of the weight but we were talking around 24" diameter and larger and 10" thick. The 2.5 ton jib cranes were often barely able to lift the raw dies. I only worked there for a year before I embarked on my current career since 1999. I have my current career because of my machining skills.

I have acquired the skills to properly operate a lathe, mill, shaper, and surface grinder and most of the tooling associated with those tools. I've learned to set up jobs on all types of machines in conventional and unconventional situations.

I can measure accurately with all the standard types of measuring tools found in a normal machine shop.

I've been successfully completing projects and customer jobs in my hobby shop for near 30 years. I do not feel embarrassed to consider myself a machinist.

The one place I'm lacking is math skills. I'm constantly learning.

I don't see any reason to limit the term machinist to people who took formal training.
I think @Investigator said in his OP that apprenticeship is a valid equivalent to formal training for being qualified to use the title of 'machinist'; you sound like you've done the apprentice thing, even if it wasn't officially called an apprenticeship.

On a general note:

The most abused term is 'Engineer'.

My father did an engineering apprenticeship in the London dockyards and the UK merchant navy in the late 50s. He was 2nd Engineer in the 60's (didn't make it to Chief, he never was that ambitious; I know where I get that lack of ambition from :grin:). He was definitely an engineer, not a fitter, machine operator or maintenance mechanic.

In Germany though, due to his lack of undergraduate degree, he wouldn't have been entitled to join a professional body and so could not would have been recognised as an engineer. Not sure what title he'd have been entitled to.

These days in the UK, anybody can call themselves an engineer and often do. Heating maintenance and repair workers call themselves heating engineers.

Now the fella I use is great. He's reliable, quick, very knowledgeable and has never failed to fix any issues and has occasionally spotted the early signs of trouble, potentially saving me quite a bit of bother and cash (he's always keen to explain everything before getting the go-ahead). Great guy and I'm happy to pay his very reasonable invoices. You can tell how much I value him by the fact that at Christmas, I drop off a bottle of Laphroaig (usually Lore) at his house.

I'd never say this to his face, but he's not an engineer. He's a great, smart, skilled repair and maintenance technician.

I won't call myself a 'Software Engineer'. If the majority of the projects I worked on followed best practice and were as rigorously developed and had the level of automated testing that they ought, I probably would but a combination of 80% deadline pressure (and yeah, those setting those deadlines, seem very slow to learn that their priorities are arse about face: "To go fast, you have to go well" as 'Uncle Bob' Martin says) and 20% my own learned bad habits mean I don't feel I'm entitled to yet. It's getting better where I work, so maybe in my 29th year of being paid to design/write software, I'll finally feel comfortable to give myself that title.

All of which ramble is to say, titles are ways to get paid more and little more beyond.

Sure, be cautious about how you present yourself and your skills via any title you give yourself but don't let it affect how you feel about yourself. ;)
 
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