At what point are you considered a "Machinist"?

[verbotenwhisky]

Isn't that the truth?
They have me listed as an Engineering Technician, which is probably close (I have taken engineering classes), but the other day, the boss called the lead drafter "Senior Engineer." It's good I wasn't drinking coffee because I would have spit it out. He is extremely good at Solidworks but readily admits that he cheated his way through the two-year tech drafting program, and he has no engineering classes at all.

Is he a drafter or a designer? There is a difference.

 

[wrmiller]

LOL , you're 1000 miles away from any beach ! We're 150 miles from OC Maryland but never go . We head to South Myrtle Beach for 2 weeks every year at 530 miles ,

It's approx. 220 miles from Tucson to Rocky Point down in Mexico, (I'm closer than that), but I won't go there because they won't let me take my guns.

(that's assuming I'd even WANT to go to Mexico at this point....)

 

[mmcmdl]

It's approx. 220 miles from Tucson to Rocky Point down in Mexico, (I'm closer than that), but I won't go there because they won't let me take my guns.

We have the same issue in NY . We're 10 miles from the EX Remington plant . NY doesn't allow " black guns " although it hasn't stopped us from taking them up . We just don't empty 30 rd clips the day before deer opens up anymore . We met Adam Pickett ( DNR ) a couple years ago when the boy took 30 shots at a woodpecker .

 

[wrmiller]

Isn't that the truth?
They have me listed as an Engineering Technician, which is probably close (I have taken engineering classes), but the other day, the boss called the lead drafter "Senior Engineer." It's good I wasn't drinking coffee because I would have spit it out. He is extremely good at Solidworks but readily admits that he cheated his way through the two-year tech drafting program, and he has no engineering classes at all.

I saw quite a bit of that over the years...

I took two years of drafting back when T-squares and french curves ruled. Graduated from HS with a diploma, a two-year EE degree, and a First-Class FCC license w/radar endorsement (remember those?). Later I took up programming and specialized in real-time embedded systems design. Got hired for a DARPA project that required me to design a real-time/determinant operating system for a laser 'beam steering' 6 DOF system on old VME based hardware.

Then I threw it all away and became an engineering VP *ugh*. Hated that because it was all politics, no engineering. I ran away screaming.

So I guess I could call myself an engineer, but I like Chief Tinkerer better.

 

[7milesup]

Is he a drafter or a designer? There is a difference.

I think he is a drafter. Not 100% sure though.
We get along splendidly at work, so I have nothing against him, but rather the boss's perception.

I just looked up the technical college in our area and I don't see mechanical drafter/designer listed at all anymore. Ironically, my daughter is the profile picture for the architectural drafting and design program.

Degree Programs and Certificates | Northwood Technical College

www.northwoodtech.edu

 

[projectnut]

Is he a drafter or a designer? There is a difference.

Where I worked there was a definite hierarchy in the Engineering department. Lowest on the list were the Engineering Technicians. There were Both electronic and mechanical technicians (4 levels in each group). The mechanical technicians were also known by the federally recognized job classification as "Mechanician". Next in line were the draftsmen, then the Design Draftsman, and finally the Engineers. We had Mechanical, Electrical, Chemical, and Civil engineers. Each of the Engineering disciplines like the technicians had 4 levels of hierarchy.

Most projects were done by a team made up from several of the disciplines. Ideas could come from anyone. When a project got past the proof-of-concept stage it went to the machine shop for a prototype. All the machinists were experienced, and management trusted their judgement. Often times changes would be made at this level for ease of assembly, or ease of future maintenance. If a change was needed, we issued an ECN (Engineering Change Notice). That would trigger the mechanisms in the system to create a new drawing and update the files to reflect the change.

 

[mmcmdl]

Often times changes would be made at this level for ease of assembly, or ease of future maintenance. If a change was needed, we issued an ECN (Engineering Change Notice). That would trigger the mechanisms in the system to create a new drawing and update the files to reflect the change.

Gubmint job ? We had revisions up to like 31C in the lab .

 

[projectnut]

Gubmint job ? We had revisions up to like 31C in the lab .

No, Private food manufacturer in the fortune 500 before it was absorbed into a conglomerate. The Machine Development Department is long gone. The design portion was passed to a contracting firm around 2000. The company thought they could save money by only letting contracts when they wanted a new machine design rather than having a staff of over 80 people full time. As it turned out the contractors' fees were so exorbitant the cost to design a machine was increased by over 6 times what it cost to do in house.

The new management realized they had made a mistake, but it was too late to attempt to resurrect the department. They started buying off the shelf packaging machines from companies like Multi-Vac. Most of the machines designed inhouse from the 1950's to the 1990's are being retired. They're still more efficient than the commercially sourced machines, but parts are hard to find and, in many cases, have to be made locally on an individual basis.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

Where I worked there was a definite hierarchy in the Engineering department. Lowest on the list were the Engineering Technicians. There were Both electronic and mechanical technicians (4 levels in each group). The mechanical technicians were also known by the federally recognized job classification as "Mechanician". Next in line were the draftsmen, then the Design Draftsman, and finally the Engineers. We had Mechanical, Electrical, Chemical, and Civil engineers. Each of the Engineering disciplines like the technicians had 4 levels of hierarchy.

Most projects were done by a team made up from several of the disciplines. Ideas could come from anyone. When a project got past the proof-of-concept stage it went to the machine shop for a prototype. All the machinists were experienced, and management trusted their judgement. Often times changes would be made at this level for ease of assembly, or ease of future maintenance. If a change was needed, we issued an ECN (Engineering Change Notice). That would trigger the mechanisms in the system to create a new drawing and update the files to reflect the change.

In the world in which I live we have 5 levels of drafters and 5 levels of designers in each discipline, Engineers are a different animal.The level 4 and Level 5 designers are some times referred to as Design Engineers, typically very senior guys high up on the pay scale. Class 4 and 5 are either individuals with many years of experience in a specific or have a related degree and 15 to 20 years typically. Drafting/Design group Leads are normally but not always pulled from the class 4 or 5 groups. Typically Class 5 designers are responsible for light engineering work with a discipline lead engineer responsible for signing off on that work.

I am a Class 5 designer who started on the board as a drafter 42 years ago, My discipline is Process Piping and I am a company lead for that discipline; therefore, I am a "Senior Lead Piping Designer" (That's not a title, its a description of what I Am/do), I do a lot of Process and Mechanical work as well, but I stay clear of the HVAC stuff.

 

[projectnut]

In the world in which I live we have 5 levels of drafters and 5 levels of designers in each discipline, Engineers are a different animal.The level 4 and Level 5 designers are some times referred to as Design Engineers, typically very senior guys high up on the pay scale. Class 4 and 5 are either individuals with many years of experience in a specific or have a related degree and 15 to 20 years typically. Drafting/Design group Leads are normally but not always pulled from the class 4 or 5 groups. Typically Class 5 designers are responsible for light engineering work with a discipline lead engineer responsible for signing off on that work.

I am a Class 5 designer who started on the board as a drafter 42 years ago, My discipline is Process Piping and I am a company lead for that discipline; therefore, I am a "Senior Lead Piping Designer" (That's not a title, its a description of what I Am/do), I do a lot of Process and Mechanical work as well, but I stay clear of the HVAC stuff.

Longevity was valued by the company I worked for. Most employees (from the janitor to the VP level) worked there 40 years or more and retired from the company. When I took the buyout in 2006, I was the least senior member in the Engineering department with over 20 years of service. I loved the job, but at that time I was in Corporate Engineering. The department was being split into multiple locations.

If I didn't take the buyout there was a strong possibility, I would have been transferred to Springfield MO. The Engineering manager there had a reputation for hating people from corporate. In fact, she was somehow able to dispose of 6 highly competent engineers that had transferred there over the years. My wife and I had already agreed that we would both retire at 55. She was already retired, and I held out another 2 years knowing a buyout was in the works.

The timing was perfect, and the buyout was generous. The weirdest part is that I retired on a Friday, and Monday the phone was ringing off the hook asking me if I wanted to come back as a contractor. The pay being offered was generous, almost to the point of being ridiculous. They kept calling back multiple times a week for over 6 months until I finally convinced them that I was enjoying retirement and would like to remain retired.