Have a chance to purchase Lathe - need advice

[G-ManBart]

Thanks, I didn't see that - admittedly I only scanned it.


**EDIT
Actually, after reading the details it still says for Pickup Only.

Shipping and handling
Item location:
Oxnard, California, United States
Ships to:
Will arrange for local pickup only (no shipping).
Excludes:

Get Rates

Local pickup
You can contact your seller to arrange to pay for and pick up your item.

This is another eBay seller blatantly putting their phone number in the listing so that people will call them directly to purchase and avoid eBay fees. They have their number listed using periods rather than dashes so it won't flag in the system. They have hundreds of listings and only a handful of sold items in the past 90 days, so they are essentially using eBay for free advertising. In all of their listings they seem to leave out shipping details as you note, but in all of them they say to call if you want shipping.

It's completely unethical on their part as far as scamming eBay, but it's hard to imagine a machinery dealer with hundreds of items listed who won't actually ship freight.

 

[Larry$]

It is not all that clear nor it is complete with parts diagrams like other manuals that PM provides.

The parts manual that came with my machine is a separate publication from the operators manual.

I don't know how many different manufactures PM buys from. The PM1440HD is an OK machine but QC was not perfect. That said there was nothing that I couldn't fix that showed up during use.
Worst but fixable was the head stock spindle was out of alignment with the bed. I bought a 2 Inch bar of steel and went through the recommended method of aligning. Tailstock was also out and again an easy fix. There was a steel roll pin where there should have been a brass shear pin on the feed shaft. The casting/location of a ball oiler made it impossible to use. I modified the casting.
The lathe has a cast iron base with a large chip area and a heavy sheet metal front that allows easy clean out of the chip area.
The electrical box & switch are on the back of the machine & very tight on space. 3 phase, 208 V. The foot brake works very well. The bed is wide (10.5") & heavily made. The bolt that holds the tail stock bottom plate on, keeps working lose. I just need to take he time to fix it. The locking lever for tail stock movement needs a support so it doesn't drag on the ways when not in use. I can add a support pin, just need to add to my list.

Conclusion: an OK lathe, that with some TL C, should be a very good machine.

 

[7milesup]

This is another eBay seller blatantly putting their phone number in the listing so that people will call them directly to purchase and avoid eBay fees. They have their number listed using periods rather than dashes so it won't flag in the system. They have hundreds of listings and only a handful of sold items in the past 90 days, so they are essentially using eBay for free advertising. In all of their listings they seem to leave out shipping details as you note, but in all of them they say to call if you want shipping.

It's completely unethical on their part as far as scamming eBay, but it's hard to imagine a machinery dealer with hundreds of items listed who won't actually ship freight.

As far as circumventing eBay, the buyer would have to agree to that, too, and give up the protections that eBay offers.

@jareese I am bordering on beating a dead horse here, but I personally would give them a call Monday to see what they have to say. One last thing... I owned a PM1022 (China) before I bought my Eisen 1440 (Taiwan). After comparing the two, I would never buy a Chinese machine. I sold my PM833T (Taiwan) and bought a Sharp knee mill. Both are made in Taiwan, but the Sharp is another magnitude above the PM machine.
I wish Lone Rock was closer...

 

[G-ManBart]

That is actually not an accurate assessment. They have been a member since 1998, with nearly 7000 items sold. They have only had 18 reviews (feedback score) in the last 12 months, but that number is based entirely upon a seller giving feedback. I have sold far more than my feedback score would indicate. In fact, I sold four items in the last 90 days, and yet, only one feedback score was given to me.
That seller has a 100% score, which is not an easy accomplishment over that many years considering how many buyers like to try scamming a seller. As far as circumventing eBay, the buyer would have to agree to that, too, and give up the protections that eBay offers.

I'm not looking at feedback scores, I'm looking at their actual sales on eBay. If you go to their current listings they have 652 items listed. If you then click on "sold items" it will show all of their sales for 90 days. They have 32 items sold in the past three months. That's a suspiciously low number of sales...because people are calling them directly and getting a lower price. They should have triple that number of sales.

Another dealer, Midwest Machine, has a Takisawa listed along with other similar machines. They have 168 items listed on eBay and have 84 sold items for 90 days. They have 25% of the listings, but 260% in sales. To be honest, that's a very high percentage of sales, so maybe location is helping them, but it's still a huge difference.

Wheeler Machinery also has a Takisawa listed, along with similar other machines. They have 277 items listed and 23 sold items. They have less than half the listings, but 2/3rds of the sales.

My wife has had an eBay business for years and I've spent a lot of time analyzing other sellers to help her estimate the number of listings to sales, etc.

Amiron is breaking eBay rules and acting in an unethical fashion. They want eBay advertising for free. I'll bet a paycheck if you call them about a machine listed on eBay the price will be lower....I'd guess about 13% lower as that's roughly what eBay takes. Maybe they keep some of that and offer 10% off

To be fair, there are quite a few machinery dealers doing the exact same thing....it's still completely unethical, but nobody seems to care about that these days. I don't like paying eBay fees, my wife doesn't like paying eBay fees, but there isn't another place that gets remotely the same visibility, which is why all these unethical dealers are on there.

 

[7milesup]

Well, a guy could walk into a used machinery showroom and purchase a machine on the spot. The buyer may or may not have seen it on eBay but in that case, eBay will not get their 12%. eBay is a multi-billion dollar company with its feet being held to the have-to-make-returns fire by Wall Street. I could care less if there are workarounds. If I had a showroom full of cars that were listed on eBay but a guy could walk in off of the street and buy one, I would hardly call that unethical.

 

[jareese]

OK - Could we bring this back on topic please? Thanks.

 

[7milesup]

Yes... Sorry about that.

The point that folks are making on here @jareese is that you have options. New Taiwan lathe or used lathe. One could search for an old American lathe, but that too, is full of unknowns. While looking at the aforementioned Takisawa TSL-1000 on eBay I ran across a LeBlond. It looked great, but then looking at the pallet it was sitting on one could see the paint overspray. A quick application of lipstick on a potential pig. Honestly, that TSL-1000 is quite intruiging and if I was looking for a lathe I look into that further.
Taiwan is good.
Chinese... NO
Old American iron... Maybe.

 

[davidpbest]

eBay equipment sellers have no automated way to quote variable priced freight shipping as part of their listing. Posting a phone number and asking someone needing shipping to call before bidding is common practice. I have sold machines this way myself on eBay, and when the buyer calls, if we come to terms, I modify the eBay listing to include the shipping and any other agreed-upon changes, and provide a Buy-It-Now link to the buyer. eBay gets their commission, seller and buyer have all the normal protections. Just because the seller lists a phone number doesn't automatically make them unethical or inclined to do a deal behind eBay's back.

 

[akjeff]

Well said David! When I bought my mill via ebay, there is no possible way I could have coordinated the shipping aspect of it, without being able to talk directly with the seller on the phone. While we may have "broke the rules"( and could have very easily sidestepped ebay altogether, which we did not do ), ebay still got their cut, the seller was happy, and I was happy. If direct contact was not established, I would not have made the purchase.

 

[G-ManBart]

eBay equipment sellers have no automated way to quote variable priced freight shipping as part of their listing. Posting a phone number and asking someone needing shipping to call before bidding is common practice. I have sold machines this way myself on eBay, and when the buyer calls, if we come to terms, I modify the eBay listing to include the shipping and any other agreed-upon changes, and provide a Buy-It-Now link to the buyer. eBay gets their commission, seller and buyer have all the normal protections. Just because the seller lists a phone number doesn't automatically make them unethical or inclined to do a deal behind eBay's back.

My last comment since it's off topic, but if someone reads this comment and thinks it's correct they could get in trouble if they sell on eBay.

Posting a phone number or e-mail in the listing, in any way, is expressly prohibited by the terms of service for most listing types. People need to check and confirm if it's allowed before they list something. The suspension for violations is for both buying and selling....wouldn't want someone to get caught off guard by that. That's all.