Anyone else experiencing long delays?

[7milesup]

I know what it's like having to wait a long while for a new "toy", but imagine it's a lot of work managing PM incoming and outgoing by such a small staff. I've been calling on and off since last year, having purchased a mill first, and I've selected different departments. I'd estimate over 10 calls, or more and I've talked to a total of only 3 different people and mostly 2 of those 3 handled my calls. All I care about at this point is that I get a healthy machine.

Just think, if PM was proactive and emailed customers with active orders every week or two with updates, how much time it would actually save them from fielding calls? It would also provide a much better customer experience.

 

[Mach_Zero]

Just think, if PM was proactive and emailed customers with active orders every week or two with updates, how much time it would actually save them from fielding calls? It would also provide a much better customer experience.

Honestly, I would be just as happy if their website wasn't lying to me. Every few weeks they update the website to say "As of XX/XX date, orders placed before this are on their original schedule" (see screenshot)

This is completely false. I placed my order in July and kept seeing the date go from 8/04 to 8/16 to 8/25 etc.

They originally told me my order would be delivered mid August. If they would have reached out to me with an email saying they're experiencing delays, I would have completely understood. It's not their fault. But even if they didn't reach out to me, if their site wasn't lying and instead said "Due to unexpected delays, orders are now expected 3 weeks later than their original schedule" or something similar, then I would understand.

They just don't want to admit to potential new customers that the schedules are completely wrong.

 

[qualitymachinetools]

I am guessing by your city and name who you are, I won't post person names here, if you ordered on July 8 for a PM-1030V, it originally said your machine was due in late August. Your machine came in on 9/4, we sent emails out letting customers know they came in. Please check your spam. There is still a balance due since you just placed a deposit to order.

You are reading our updates for orders posted incorrectly, those are only for a NEW order. As shipments sell out, we adjust that. Your order was still on its original schedule, estimated end of August, but came in here Sept 4, not too far off. That shipment sold out, but we had one come in about 2 weeks later, with some machines available in stock. If anything says in stock when selected, that means it is here in our warehouse and available.

You are correct, we do not send periodic updates, I wish we had a way to do that, but I Have not found software that works with our inventory that could do it automatically, and we currently have 500 + backorders just on machines. Other than manually going through it every few weeks, and sending most people no update because we do not have anything to see until they are shipped, it would not do much. Then, the shipping companies change ships all the time, its so hard to keep track of, we would end up with 500 confused people. Also people cancel, change, whatever so sometimes your place in line gets bumped up.

If you ever want an update, just send a message and we can look it up. We do not mind at all, thats the only way I have ever found that works the best.

Pretty easy to throw ideas out there as to what we should do, but its not like I don't know what would make the customer experience better, and what I would like to have and have. I have tried to make it happen. I definitely wish we had a way to avoid the calls and emails asking when something was going to be in.

If it was a single product shipped in a box, sure we could send a blast email telling everyone that XX will be in about this date. Easy. With a mix of products including machines with different kind of base options (None, steel, cast iron), accessories ordered with it when all has to be in for it to be filled, its just not easy. And no I am not making excuses, NOTHING that I looked in to even came close to working for what we do. We looked extensively and continue to do so.

To Mach-Zero, I'll send a copy of your order again, please make sure all is correct, then we just need to get the balance taken care of and we can get it ready to go for you.

 

[qualitymachinetools]

ALSO as a note, not all machines are backorders. Many are, yes, but anyone knows that ahead of time.

Certain models yes are a crazy amount of time out, our GT models are more than 6 months out on some. Things are starting to get back to normal, but the more normal they get and the more production gets back to normal, the bigger our backorder list builds for machines like the GTs.

If you can wait and want that model, that is great. If you can't wait, either choose something in stock, or just don't get on the backorder list, its that simple. We are not taking anyone money unwillingly, and its easy to cancel if you choose. You lose nothing if it ends up being later and you cancel (Other than Paypal keeps their fee if you used Paypal, please don't use Paypal if you can help it)

We talked about not even taking backorders anymore, just waiting until stock came in and sell them then, but I believe that would be chaos. It forces people to make a split minute decision, like they are watching like vultures when the machines come in and scoop them up. Does not give all a fair chance, so I don't know any other way to do it. Not in to playing the game like the housing market was with bidders going over asking price to get the house they wanted.

 

[Toro5xi]

I think the shipping delays are tough for both parties. The 20% deposit is very reasonable, especially when compared with other companies.
I am waiting on a 1228, which is the model I really have my heart set on, but probably need to figure out a back up plan or work around at this point.

 

[H F Smitty]

Agree with Toro5xi that 20% down is very reasonable.
I ordered a PM-1440-2SM-V on 1/24/22 with 20% down.
Do I think this is a long time to wait? Yes of course.
I check the shipping status monthly.

My latest correspondence with Matt was last week.
He knows how long I have been waiting and offered a different model that has been shipped.
I thanked him for the offer and told him I would tuff it out waiting for the PM-1440-2SM-V.

It is difficult running a business when the supply chain is so uncertain.

I work in Commercial Construction and we are experiencing similar delays for products.

I'm hoping the wait is worth it!

 

[Mach_Zero]

First of all, I'd like to thank PM for the reply. I never meant to badmouth the company and I'm still very excited about getting a PM lathe (and even a mill in the future when my bank account has recovered.

I'd also like to put it out there that I changed my order last night. I decided to switch my deposit to the 1228VF lathe. So in reality all this waiting has benefitted me, ironically, because it allowed me to change my mind.

Before continuing, I'd just like to repeat again that my issue is NOT with the delays but with the poor communication. Delays are expected with the supply chain issues and craziness of the world we live in today. I do not fault PM for this at all, but I have been misled several times when I have called PM.

You are reading our updates for orders posted incorrectly, those are only for a NEW order. As shipments sell out, we adjust that. Your order was still on its original schedule, estimated end of August, but came in here Sept 4, not too far off. That shipment sold out, but we had one come in about 2 weeks later, with some machines available in stock. If anything says in stock when selected, that means it is here in our warehouse and available.

That is a pretty confusing interpretation of that statement. I don't understand why that statement would even be necessary on the website. It reads as if the orders place "before" this date are still on their "original" schedule. The way you have described that statement doesn't make sense to me. I interpret it as any orders that have already been placed before this day are still on the schedule that we quoted when the order was placed.

You are correct, we do not send periodic updates, I wish we had a way to do that, but I Have not found software that works with our inventory that could do it automatically, and we currently have 500 + backorders just on machines. Other than manually going through it every few weeks, and sending most people no update because we do not have anything to see until they are shipped, it would not do much. Then, the shipping companies change ships all the time, its so hard to keep track of, we would end up with 500 confused people. Also people cancel, change, whatever so sometimes your place in line gets bumped up.

If you ever want an update, just send a message and we can look it up. We do not mind at all, thats the only way I have ever found that works the best.

I completely understand the difficulty in sending thousands of emails. And I don't pretend to understand the logistical nightmare of running such a company that is receiving shipments from overseas that are delayed.

I think the main problem is that I've called several times and each time have been told "You'll get an email this Thursday or Friday" or "You'll get an email Monday or Tuesday" only for that day to come and go without hearing from PM.

I want to stress again, I'm not upset about the delays, just that each time PM sets expectations for me I get excited only to be disappointed later.

Pretty easy to throw ideas out there as to what we should do, but its not like I don't know what would make the customer experience better, and what I would like to have and have. I have tried to make it happen. I definitely wish we had a way to avoid the calls and emails asking when something was going to be in.

If it was a single product shipped in a box, sure we could send a blast email telling everyone that XX will be in about this date. Easy. With a mix of products including machines with different kind of base options (None, steel, cast iron), accessories ordered with it when all has to be in for it to be filled, its just not easy. And no I am not making excuses, NOTHING that I looked in to even came close to working for what we do. We looked extensively and continue to do so.

To Mach-Zero, I'll send a copy of your order again, please make sure all is correct, then we just need to get the balance taken care of and we can get it ready to go for you.

Thanks for your help. I did received a copy of the order and I ended up calling and switching my deposit to the 1228VF. Again I apologize if my posts have been bashing PM in any way. I appreciate you taking the time to post and explain the situation. I will eagerly away the 1228.

I think the shipping delays are tough for both parties. The 20% deposit is very reasonable, especially when compared with other companies.
I am waiting on a 1228, which is the model I really have my heart set on, but probably need to figure out a back up plan or work around at this point.

The deposit is very fair and I prefer it to not having even put a deposit and just waiting for it to be in stock. The delays are completely understood and I know it's not PM's fault. I was just expressing some frustration I had with them setting timeline expectations that never turned out to be correct. But I've since switched to the 1228 like you and I'll be waiting with your for our lathes!

 

[qualitymachinetools]

No bashing taken, just tried to explain it, I see that you changed your machine order, not a problem at all.

That is a pretty confusing interpretation of that statement. I don't understand why that statement would even be necessary on the website. It reads as if the orders place "before" this date are still on their "original" schedule. The way you have described that statement doesn't make sense to me. I interpret it as any orders that have already been placed before this day are still on the schedule that we quoted when the order was placed.

Correct. Orders placed before that date shown on there are on their original schedules.

Example:
If we have 10 machines due in say December 2022, and 8 due in February 2023.
While any of these 10 due in December are still available, date shown would say ETA December 2022.

Let's say that on October 15, all 10 machines coming in December 2022 are now spoken for.

As of 10/15, ETA would now say February 2023 for NEW orders, previous orders still on original schedules. Because the 10 machines coming in December 2022 are still coming, but they are just all sold out to other customers.

Its certainly not perfect, we do go through it and change as soon as we see that incoming shipments are sold of certain models, but things change daily.

We've had container shipments sit at the port for 6 weeks, while others that came in on the same ship were here in 24 hours. Nobody can tell us why.
We have things delayed by weather (I see a hurricane and ships sitting around the Panama Canal waiting, shouldnt be too long, but its another thing that happens)
We had a truck flip over between Baltimore and us so we lost a whole shipment that we ordered back in 2021 (We have to plan a year out or more- just happened last week, first time ever, everyone has been notified and we are dealing with that)
Covid shut downs again this past Spring and early Summer, I thought that was all over. It wasnt.
So much more.

Sometimes I think about having a bar and selling beer instead of machines. Has to be so easy, right? Well there are problems getting certain beers too from what I hear, and of course you gotta deal with the people who have too many. No thanks, I'll stick with these machines.

 

[JMBrewer]

For what it's worth, it took awhile (as I was told when I ordered) for my 1340GT and 935TS mill to come in and I am 100% glad I waited. Well worth the wait in my opinion, came in great condition/well packaged and would buy another machine from PM tomorrow

 

[maticulus]

On my second updated pushback for the 1228 lathe now. A good thing that has come of it so far and heads up to others, I had the 8" ultra precision chuck added to my invoice a while back and noticed recently that some discounted items had been posted up on ebay by PM and scored the same chuck in brand new condition for ~$100 less due to the box being damaged, with warranty and chuck intact. There were some other nice items also and some are still left as of today 11/15/22.