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Why should I NOT buy a 3-in-1 machine?
- Thread starter strantor
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Hi Charles,
Not sure why you are so dead against 2nd hand but hey, each to their own.
Based on your info most of what you intend to do, (or sound to me like it is), is going to be achievable with a lathe so I would recommend getting as big a lathe for your application as you can afford, and then look at a mill down the track. Just remember that you will only get limited tooling with a new lathe, so budget to spend at least 1/2 again on decent tooling.
I have never owned, or even operated a 3 in 1, so I am probably not qualified to comment there.
Cheers Phil
Not sure why you are so dead against 2nd hand but hey, each to their own.
Based on your info most of what you intend to do, (or sound to me like it is), is going to be achievable with a lathe so I would recommend getting as big a lathe for your application as you can afford, and then look at a mill down the track. Just remember that you will only get limited tooling with a new lathe, so budget to spend at least 1/2 again on decent tooling.
I have never owned, or even operated a 3 in 1, so I am probably not qualified to comment there.
Cheers Phil
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Well I'm not completely against used. If there were more used machines in my area in my price range, I would be inclined to go look at them and learn the ropes of sizing up a good lathe. I've read these tips for inspecting a lathe, but the thing is, they only come up for sale around here once in a blue moon, and as soon as they do, they are gone (and for way more than you would expect). So I feel relegated to buying from ebay from up north, and I'm a little hesitant to do that. Even if I wasn't hesitant, 90% of the lathe auctions say "local pickup only" or FOB "my shop floor." If I want to pay somebody (wouldn't even know who to contact about that) to go pick up, crate, and transport my lathe to TX, I'm not confident that it would arrive in one piece and that the shipping wouldn't cost more than the lathe.
I have another thread about a used logan - best specimen I've encountered "locally" - but I have to drive over 3hrs one way to go look at it (~200$ round trip gas cost).
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Charles,
I hear you on the distance thing. I looked for 2 years before I found a used machine local to me, and that was still 3 hours away. Where I live it is 1.5 hours just to the nearest toolstore (and that is only a Harbour Freight comparison), a real toolstore is 6 hours away.
But I would have thought SE Texas would be a melting pot of machine shops selling off gear and/or closing down.
My personal opinion is that a good quality used machine will far outweigh any cheap import machine hands down. Its takes a lot to wear out a quality machine, most times you can repair or replace the worn part/s at not to great a cost. The opportunity for extra tooling thrown in cannot be overstated. Go and have a look at stuff local to you that even if it is out of your price range or size, at least you get a feel for what to look for. You would never buy the first 2nd hand car you looked at. Nor would you go by yourself the 1st time if you didnt have a grounding in mechanics. Take a mate, even if just for the conversation on the drive.
Cheers Phil
I hear you on the distance thing. I looked for 2 years before I found a used machine local to me, and that was still 3 hours away. Where I live it is 1.5 hours just to the nearest toolstore (and that is only a Harbour Freight comparison), a real toolstore is 6 hours away.
But I would have thought SE Texas would be a melting pot of machine shops selling off gear and/or closing down.
My personal opinion is that a good quality used machine will far outweigh any cheap import machine hands down. Its takes a lot to wear out a quality machine, most times you can repair or replace the worn part/s at not to great a cost. The opportunity for extra tooling thrown in cannot be overstated. Go and have a look at stuff local to you that even if it is out of your price range or size, at least you get a feel for what to look for. You would never buy the first 2nd hand car you looked at. Nor would you go by yourself the 1st time if you didnt have a grounding in mechanics. Take a mate, even if just for the conversation on the drive.
Cheers Phil
I don't think it matters much where you live, a three hour drive for a good machine seems common and reasonable to me. Of course I drive over an hour to work each way. When I lived in South Texas we regularly drove 2-4 hours to do stuff, it takes an hour to get to the neighbors house down there. Of course gas was much cheaper in those days. I just factor the travel into the price and communicate with the seller enough to be 95% sure I'm going to buy before I go.
I bought a used Smithy 3-in-1 earlier this year. Like you I debated it for a long time. I wanted a new one, but I always needed the money more for something else and just couldn't afford one. When a really good deal came up on a used AT-300 I bought it. Even though it had originally been owned by a machinist and very lightly used, I found right away the machine will not do very precise work, I doubt that it ever could. I was missing some parts and found that most of the parts from the newer models still fit my 1980's AT-300. They haven't changed much since they first came out.
I've been a woodworking guy for ages and have very slowly added metalworking to my interests. I learned a long time ago with woodworking machines to buy the biggest and best you can afford. That often means used on my budget. I had many multipurpose woodworking tools and always ended up wanting stand alone machines. I had to learn the hard way (I always do) Metalworking tools follow the same rules. On the other hand, one of my first major tool purchases was a Shop Smith back in the early 80's, and while I hated changing setups, I made allot of stuff with that machine. I was in the Navy (Seabees: Construction Electrician), so I needed something that I could break down and move. There were times when I had the whole setup in a closet and worked in the living room of my apartment. (Funny, I still don't understand why my first Wife left me, I'm a real handy guy to have around the house. :nono
The point being, in my experience a multipurpose tool will be a pain, but will work if it's the only thing you can use.
I knew I would likely upgrade later when I purchased the 3-in-one machine, I didn't expect to be looking within a few weeks, and as luck would have it as soon as I bought the 3-in-1 used equipment started popping up everywhere around me. If I had more cash I could have had a full shop. Life is funny sometimes. That's how it goes I guess. I ended up bringing home a 1920 Hendey 14x6 Gear Head Lathe. One and a half Ton of old American iron and a winter restoration project.) It's way bigger than I need, but the owner was going to scrap the machine if someone didn't take it quick and for $200 it was less than the used Smithy! Not nearly as easy to move I might add. I really hope I won't have to move this beast again in my lifetime.
In the short term do what you gotta to get things done, but in the long run it's cheaper to buy the right tool the first time than to buy it after buying several wrong ones. That's my advise, I just wish I would learn to follow my own advise...
I bought a used Smithy 3-in-1 earlier this year. Like you I debated it for a long time. I wanted a new one, but I always needed the money more for something else and just couldn't afford one. When a really good deal came up on a used AT-300 I bought it. Even though it had originally been owned by a machinist and very lightly used, I found right away the machine will not do very precise work, I doubt that it ever could. I was missing some parts and found that most of the parts from the newer models still fit my 1980's AT-300. They haven't changed much since they first came out.
I've been a woodworking guy for ages and have very slowly added metalworking to my interests. I learned a long time ago with woodworking machines to buy the biggest and best you can afford. That often means used on my budget. I had many multipurpose woodworking tools and always ended up wanting stand alone machines. I had to learn the hard way (I always do) Metalworking tools follow the same rules. On the other hand, one of my first major tool purchases was a Shop Smith back in the early 80's, and while I hated changing setups, I made allot of stuff with that machine. I was in the Navy (Seabees: Construction Electrician), so I needed something that I could break down and move. There were times when I had the whole setup in a closet and worked in the living room of my apartment. (Funny, I still don't understand why my first Wife left me, I'm a real handy guy to have around the house. :nono
The point being, in my experience a multipurpose tool will be a pain, but will work if it's the only thing you can use. I knew I would likely upgrade later when I purchased the 3-in-one machine, I didn't expect to be looking within a few weeks, and as luck would have it as soon as I bought the 3-in-1 used equipment started popping up everywhere around me. If I had more cash I could have had a full shop. Life is funny sometimes. That's how it goes I guess. I ended up bringing home a 1920 Hendey 14x6 Gear Head Lathe. One and a half Ton of old American iron and a winter restoration project.
) It's way bigger than I need, but the owner was going to scrap the machine if someone didn't take it quick and for $200 it was less than the used Smithy! Not nearly as easy to move I might add. I really hope I won't have to move this beast again in my lifetime.In the short term do what you gotta to get things done, but in the long run it's cheaper to buy the right tool the first time than to buy it after buying several wrong ones. That's my advise, I just wish I would learn to follow my own advise...
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I'm as baffled by it as you are. Houston is an industrious city and I can't believe how slim the pickings are. The only logical explanation I can come up with is that I'm not looking in the right places. But, I check craigslist 10X per day, and 2 or 3 times per day I look at everything on ebay that pops up in a 200 mile radius for "lathe." There are several industrial surplus places around that sell used lathes, but they ask outrageous prices.
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The industrial surplus houses must be getting their stock from somewhere. Is there someone who conducts "real" auctions nearby? You know the type, take your cheque book, get a bidders tag, put your hand up at the right times, at the fall of the hammer you own it. Just dont get caught up in the excitement! Well not too much anyway. Rural clearing sales, farmers selling off unwanted machinery. Maybe speak to the realtors. They might have an idea about auctions.
Cheers Phil
Cheers Phil
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Phil,
Houston is the nerve center of the world when it comes to anything dealing with the Oilfield. The oilfield is HOT right now and is going in the third year of "blowing and going". There is no signs of it letting up anytime soon, either. There are over 3,000 machine shops, large and small, spread out over an area from New Orlands, LA to Brownsville, TX, on the coast going inlandland as far as 400-600 miles serving the oilfield. My small shop included.
Small machinery does not hardly exists for sale "used" in this area anymore. There are a couple of machinery dealers in Houston that have used machinery, but the smallest lathe any of them have are over 18" swing and cary a five plus digit price tags. I personnaly have not seen any small lather for sale in over three years. Last was a 14" Hendy cone head. I should have bought it to store, to sell later. I bought a 6 x 12 surface grinder from Ohio last year, shipping cost was almost double what I paid for the grinder. We ar forced to buy from other areas of the country and take our chances shipping stuff down here the South.
I don't like it either, but it's reality right now.
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We just had an auction at the local auctioneer to clear out a bunch of school board surplus machines. There were 6 lathes, all beat to death and beyond and all fetched over a $1000 each! Non were worth my while touching.
Walter
Walter
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I have a Knuth DBF400 3 in 1 mill/lathe. It's my first machine and i chose it over the 7x and 9x20 machines (that was my budget). I went to the Knuth dealer here and they had one with a busted cross slide wheel and sold it to me new for $750 their MSRP is $2300. I bought a old sears hand wheel and machined it to fit... Couldn't pass it up especially when comparable machines go for $1500 and up.
I'm a better learner when I can try what I read and take things apart. I'm starting to understand how it works and how it's put together. Having said that there are some limitations. I wish it had a quick change gears with a tumbler and some sort of variable speed or gear set without the pully changes. The mill is very limited but usuable... i've used it to mill out some rough casting tools i got from harbor freight.
I love the lathe given the limitations listed above. I'm glad I have this one over the 7x mini lathes... cute. Maybe the 9x20 would have been a good choice but then I wouldn't get to play with a mill with R8 spindle and learn... there's a lot to learn about milling and lots of tooling to collect.
The mill has an R8 spindle which will be compatible with my next machine a Bridgeport. I don't have a drill press and this $750 machine saved me from buying one and losing the floor space. Plus it's a way better mill than a drill press!
To each his own. I'm still tweaking my machine and learning while collecting vintage tooling from craigslist and e-bay. You should check this link out... http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewforum.php?f=27
there's also a yahoo 3 in 1 group.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3_in_1_Lathe_Mill_Drill
Charlie
I'm a better learner when I can try what I read and take things apart. I'm starting to understand how it works and how it's put together. Having said that there are some limitations. I wish it had a quick change gears with a tumbler and some sort of variable speed or gear set without the pully changes. The mill is very limited but usuable... i've used it to mill out some rough casting tools i got from harbor freight.
I love the lathe given the limitations listed above. I'm glad I have this one over the 7x mini lathes... cute. Maybe the 9x20 would have been a good choice but then I wouldn't get to play with a mill with R8 spindle and learn... there's a lot to learn about milling and lots of tooling to collect.
The mill has an R8 spindle which will be compatible with my next machine a Bridgeport. I don't have a drill press and this $750 machine saved me from buying one and losing the floor space. Plus it's a way better mill than a drill press!
To each his own. I'm still tweaking my machine and learning while collecting vintage tooling from craigslist and e-bay. You should check this link out... http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewforum.php?f=27
there's also a yahoo 3 in 1 group.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3_in_1_Lathe_Mill_Drill
Charlie
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