Using Boric Acid and Iron wire to reduce scale when tempering/heat treating

[Cooter Brown]

Interesting, they call it, iron wire.
We’ve always called it bailing or mechanic’s wire.
I’ve been following along. I have considered a heat treating oven. The science of heat treatment is very interesting to me.
Great thread!

If you get a heat treating oven then buy this book its my new bible..... Its expensive as hell.... I was lucky enough to find an old used one on ebay for $90.....

Heat Treater's Guide: Practices and Procedures for Irons and Steels: Harry Chandler, Harry Chandler: 9780871705204: Amazon.com: Books

Heat Treater's Guide: Practices and Procedures for Irons and Steels [Harry Chandler, Harry Chandler] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Heat Treater's Guide: Practices and Procedures for Irons and Steels

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[dbb-the-bruce]

is this the type of wire you are looking for?

https://www.amazon.com/Iron-Binding...+Binding+Wire&qid=1568804098&s=gateway&sr=8-5

That's a much finer gauge than I'm looking for but I will try searching for "Iron Binding Wire".

 

[dbb-the-bruce]

I've got "Hardening, Tempering and Heat Treatment" by Tubal Cain. (workshop practice series #1, cheap in paper back)

I've just re-read the chapter 1 where he discusses the history of Iron production, early steel and roughly explains the chemistry (for a layman).
The part that caught my attention is the description of (paraphrased)

"early STEEL (prior to 1855) which is not the mild steel we know today. It was made by starting with "BEST"
or wrought iron heated in a box containing charcoal at 1000 C for 8 to 10 days (!).

The iron would absorb the carbon. The process was called the"Cementation Process".
Carbon content could be raised to 1.5% and the "steel" was used for making razors.
"

I'm guessing that the description of using boric acid and IRON wire come form the assumption that the iron will absorb some of the carbon and also that iron wire was a lot more common when the technique was used.

Anyhow, based on the comments here in this thread it looks to me like the actual make up of the wire has very little effect on scale reduction and that the boric acid simply forms a coating on the part that prevents/reduces air/atmosphere forming scale.

-Dave B

 

[Cooter Brown]

The heat treaters guide has hardnening and tempering information on just about every steel and stainless steel alloy......

 

[Janderso]

Hudson Steel is where I buy tool steel.
Their web site has lots of information including heat treatment and tempering stats on what they sell.

Tool Steel | High Speed Steel | Tool Steel for Sale

Hudson Tool Steel provides a variety of in stock tool steel and high speed tool steels at a great price

www.hudsontoolsteel.com

 

[markba633csi]

I read somewhere that old wire coat hangers are iron, but they have a coating you'd need to remove
M

 

[grzdomagala]

I always assumed wire is only to keep liquid flux from "dripping off" (sort of like a piece of cloth keeps water in place) and help spread heat evenly to keep sharp corners from overheating (corners will heat up much faster since hot gases "attack" there from multiple sides). So - anything that can survive the flame is ok (as long it's not zinc galvanised- you don't want breath the fumes).


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[dbb-the-bruce]

... and help spread heat evenly to keep sharp corners from overheating (corners will heat up much faster since hot gases "attack" there from multiple sides).

That's the best reasoning for the wire I've heard so far. Makes the most sense. If using a torch, it would be easy to overheat corners/edges.
And yes it does help keep the flux paste in place but I've read plenty of advice (jewelry work) where wire is not used.

That's the thing about all of these old "Do it this way wisdom" sometimes it's awful hard to figure out the Why? and everyone's been doing it that way for so long that they don't know the why.

-Dave B

 

[RJSakowski]

We used borax for forge welding and brazing. Borax is the sodium salt of boric acid.

I suspect that the use of iron wire predates the modern steel production that came with the Bessimer process. Before 1860, iron wire was the only type available. Mild steel wire such as used for tie wire and baling wire is essentially pure iron, having .25% or less carbon and up to .9% manganese.

Soft iron has very little spring back, allowing a tight wrap. Alternative choices for smaller diameter wire might be flux core welding wire or the wire from spiral bound notebooks.

 

[Cooter Brown]

.25% carbon....? That's as much as A36....