Twist in my bed

[Smithdoor]

Hello all. I know there’s tons of info out there for this particular situation but I have kind of a unique situation I need advice for. I have an older 12x36 Enco lathe that I have been trying to level and get the twist out of. Problem is no matter what I do I can’t get it to level. It’s like the setup is too ridged. When I got the machine it was setup the way it is now. It has had a large heavy steel frame built around the actual lathe bench and I believe it’s what’s got me chasing my tail. I was thinking about taking the framing off and sitting the lathe bench on the floor, on leveling feet of coarse, so that the bed can twist the way I need it to. However that’s not going to be an easy task so I wanted to get some advice from some people that have felt with and knows a thing or two about how a bed reacts to certain stresses. Before I go through the task of lifting the lathe and resetting everything. Thanks in advance. I will add some photos of what we are dealing with.

Was this lathe manufacturer around 1980?

Dave

 

[matthewsx]

His machine is the same size as mine, its 1100 to 1200 pounds on the floor, its not a bench top machine.

Okay, my mistake. "older 12x36 Enco"

My 12x36 is a bench top machine and came with a nearly identical stand but it's only ~600lbs.



I was under the impression that bench top machines are those with separate bases as opposed to the ones with cast iron stands built in like this Grizzly South Bend that appears to be a clone of a Clausing Colchester.

14" x 40" 16-Speed 220V 3-Phase Lathe with Fagor DRO - Grizzly Industrial

<h1>SB1039F 14" x 40" 16-Speed 220V 3-Phase Lathe with Fagor DRO</h1> <h2>A precision toolroom lathe equipped for tough metalworking production environments.</h2> <p>Our toolroom lathes offer different capacities based on your production needs. <p>The SB1039F 14" x 40" Lathe is equipped with...

www.grizzly.com

I thought my experience might be relevant but if not he's free to ignore it.

John

 

[Pevehouse]

Was this lathe manufacturer around 1980?

Dave

I believe it was 85

 

[Pevehouse]

Okay, my mistake. "older 12x36 Enco"

My 12x36 is a bench top machine and came with a nearly identical stand but it's only ~600lbs.

View attachment 478300

I was under the impression that bench top machines are those with separate bases as opposed to the ones with cast iron stands built in like this Grizzly South Bend that appears to be a clone of a Clausing Colchester.

14" x 40" 16-Speed 220V 3-Phase Lathe with Fagor DRO - Grizzly Industrial

<h1>SB1039F 14" x 40" 16-Speed 220V 3-Phase Lathe with Fagor DRO</h1> <h2>A precision toolroom lathe equipped for tough metalworking production environments.</h2> <p>Our toolroom lathes offer different capacities based on your production needs. <p>The SB1039F 14" x 40" Lathe is equipped with...

www.grizzly.com

I thought my experience might be relevant but if not he's free to ignore it.

John

I’m so sorry, I wasn’t ignoring you. I’m just popping in and out. Working right now. With all the feedback I probably just didn’t see your response. I do value your input

 

[Pevehouse]

Okay, my mistake. "older 12x36 Enco"

My 12x36 is a bench top machine and came with a nearly identical stand but it's only ~600lbs.

View attachment 478300

I was under the impression that bench top machines are those with separate bases as opposed to the ones with cast iron stands built in like this Grizzly South Bend that appears to be a clone of a Clausing Colchester.

14" x 40" 16-Speed 220V 3-Phase Lathe with Fagor DRO - Grizzly Industrial

<h1>SB1039F 14" x 40" 16-Speed 220V 3-Phase Lathe with Fagor DRO</h1> <h2>A precision toolroom lathe equipped for tough metalworking production environments.</h2> <p>Our toolroom lathes offer different capacities based on your production needs. <p>The SB1039F 14" x 40" Lathe is equipped with...

www.grizzly.com

I thought my experience might be relevant but if not he's free to ignore it.

John

That cabinet is close to identical

 

[Pevehouse]

Was this lathe manufacturer around 1980?

Dave

Is there a reason you asked about the manufacture date? Just curious

 

[matthewsx]

I’m so sorry, I wasn’t ignoring you. I’m just popping in and out. Working right now. With all the feedback I probably just didn’t see your response. I do value your input

Nope, I'm on my lunch break too....

I think you'll be fine, there's lots of good advice in this thread. Mine is simple though, start working with it and figure out if/what needs adjustment before you spend a bunch of time tweaking it.

Measuring the parts you make (including the 2 collar) will lead you towards needed improvements.

Cheers,

John

 

[verbotenwhisky]

Okay, my mistake. "older 12x36 Enco"

My 12x36 is a bench top machine and came with a nearly identical stand but it's only ~600lbs.

View attachment 478300

I was under the impression that bench top machines are those with separate bases as opposed to the ones with cast iron stands built in like this Grizzly South Bend that appears to be a clone of a Clausing Colchester.

14" x 40" 16-Speed 220V 3-Phase Lathe with Fagor DRO - Grizzly Industrial

<h1>SB1039F 14" x 40" 16-Speed 220V 3-Phase Lathe with Fagor DRO</h1> <h2>A precision toolroom lathe equipped for tough metalworking production environments.</h2> <p>Our toolroom lathes offer different capacities based on your production needs. <p>The SB1039F 14" x 40" Lathe is equipped with...

www.grizzly.com

I thought my experience might be relevant but if not he's free to ignore it.

John

John,

Not throwing rocks bud. I could be wrong, but based upon the pictures his appears to be as big as mine which is a PM1236 and it weighs in at a Approx. 1250 lbs with the sheet metal base, not really a bench top machine.

I can tell you from experience that you cannot support a piece of equipment from the ends and put the feet between the supports which is how his is currently supported, this is kinda what I do for a living in a much more extreme way. The lathe is stiff, but it will over time flex, bend and sag. I put forth my opinion above and you disagreed and that is fine, I am not the all knowing and I may not have all of the facts. Best I can do is suggest based upon what I am told, what I can see and the knowledge I have.

Best Regards, Be safe out there....

 

[matthewsx]

John,

Not throwing rocks bud. I could be wrong, but based upon the pictures his appears to be as big as mine which is a PM1236 and it weighs in at a Approx. 1250 lbs with the sheet metal base, not really a bench top machine.

I can tell you from experience that you cannot support a piece of equipment from the ends and put the feet between the supports which is how his is currently supported, this is kinda what I do for a living in a much more extreme way. The lathe is stiff, but it will over time flex, bend and sag. I put forth my opinion above and you disagreed and that is fine, I am not the all knowing and I may not have all of the facts. Best I can do is suggest based upon what I am told, what I can see and the knowledge I have.

Best Regards, Be safe out there....

I did say the OP should remove the additional pieces if he thinks it's a problem.

His stand looks like mine with only four adjuster foot mounting points at the ends, not the six points that 1440 lathes usually have, four at the headstock end and two at the tailstock. If that's the case, and you want adjuster feet you would be supporting only at the ends, putting the center panel in compression. Mine is quite thick and with the horizontal bend in the middle I'm pretty sure it's engineered to be plenty rigid for the application. If the lathe is bolted firmly to the bases it will definitely be subjected to any forces transferred from the base. But, the instructions I have say to adjust level with the lathe bed loose. I can't vouch for the OP's stand but when I did have mine supported on the ends with a similar setup it did not throw anything out of adjustment.

Also, his lathe appears to be a belt drive like mine, not a gear head like the PM 1236 which is definitely about twice the weight. Mine (branded Samson) was made by Tida, the OP's looks very similar to what I have with the lid that opens up to access the belts for speed changes. If that's the case it's a different machine than the PM 1236, or even a geared head Enco 12x36.

The Tida manual is available in the downloads section of this site for anyone that's a contributing member.



Here's the advice on leveling.



I'd definitely recommend the OP download it if he hasn't already, that way he'll know if his is also a rebranded Tida.

I'm certainly not going to question anyone's professional expertise, I currently work as an equipment engineering manager at a small company and sometimes need to consult with our mechanical engineers on structural issues. I'm also not trying to be argumentative, just relying my experience with a very similar machine. I also fretted about supporting the stand only on the ends but ultimately decided it was a non-issue for the level of work I was doing. Eventually, I got the cabinets it's on now so that became a moot point. I would love to have a 1/2" steel plate that would bridge the two cabinets, but since the lathe is supported by the feet cast into the bed it's probably just a desire, not something that will have any effect on accuracy. BTW, my original stands are very stout and are being repurposed as other machine stands.

I also readily admitted there are many others on here who know more than I know about this stuff. I'm basing my comments not only on my experience, but what I've read from folks who post on here that I trust.

Cheers,

John

 

[verbotenwhisky]

I did say the OP should remove the additional pieces if he thinks it's a problem.

His stand looks like mine with only four adjuster foot mounting points at the ends, not the six points that 1440 lathes usually have, four at the headstock end and two at the tailstock. If that's the case, and you want adjuster feet you would be supporting only at the ends, putting the center panel in compression. Mine is quite thick and with the horizontal bend in the middle I'm pretty sure it's engineered to be plenty rigid for the application. If the lathe is bolted firmly to the bases it will definitely be subjected to any forces transferred from the base. But, the instructions I have say to adjust level with the lathe bed loose. I can't vouch for the OP's stand but when I did have mine supported on the ends with a similar setup it did not throw anything out of adjustment.

Also, his lathe appears to be a belt drive like mine, not a gear head like the PM 1236 which is definitely about twice the weight. Mine (branded Samson) was made by Tida, the OP's looks very similar to what I have with the lid that opens up to access the belts for speed changes. If that's the case it's a different machine than the PM 1236, or even a geared head Enco 12x36.

The Tida manual is available in the downloads section of this site for anyone that's a contributing member.

View attachment 478348

Here's the advice on leveling.

View attachment 478349

I'd definitely recommend the OP download it if he hasn't already, that way he'll know if his is also a rebranded Tida.

I'm certainly not going to question anyone's professional expertise, I currently work as an equipment engineering manager at a small company and sometimes need to consult with our mechanical engineers on structural issues. I'm also not trying to be argumentative, just relying my experience with a very similar machine. I also fretted about supporting the stand only on the ends but ultimately decided it was a non-issue for the level of work I was doing. Eventually, I got the cabinets it's on now so that became a moot point. I would love to have a 1/2" steel plate that would bridge the two cabinets, but since the lathe is supported by the feet cast into the bed it's probably just a desire, not something that will have any effect on accuracy. BTW, my original stands are very stout and are being repurposed as other machine stands.

I also readily admitted there are many others on here who know more than I know about this stuff. I'm basing my comments not only on my experience, but what I've read from folks who post on here that I trust.

Cheers,

John

Truce man, I withdraw, your superior intellect and knowledge have carried the day.