Turn Off Lathe Backing Plate...Tips?

I'm going to assume that this is in good condition, and "stuck", and that it's not rusted, corroded, and frozen in place. That means you have to throw out 99 percent of the ways that "always work" for getting stuck things apart. Good clean metal that's stuck is the way it is by an entirely different mechanism than things exposed to the elements, heat cycling, badly dissimilar metals, etc.

If you've got enough pressure against the thread that it won't move at this point, stop spraying the Kroil, or any oil. It's not gonna get where you need it until after the chuck is off. (If there were a gap there, it wouldn't be stuck.....). It's just making smoke.

Persistance usually gets things of that nature to move eventually. Constant "bumping" is what got it on as tight as it is in the first place, and will eventually get it to come loose.

Heat is an option. If "normal" ways fail, one really effective way is instead of heating and then trying to unscrew it fails... ESPECIALLY if you have what you have... The "outside" part is heavier than the "inside part", is to place it under tension BEFORE heating. Because the inside part is so relatively light (less thermal mass) it heats up a LOT easier. It obviously has good intimate contact... You don't get as good of a differential expansion. Take your lever arrangements, the bars and the collar, set up one against a brace, and the other loaded up with a small ratchet strap, maybe down to the table, and put some good tension on it, as if you were actually pulling on it. The longer the ratchet strap, the better. Maybe to a low place on the stand/table? There's some stretch in it, so the longer the tensioned secton of strap is, the more "distance" you'll get. You only need this to move a whisker, then it'll go. THEN, after you have a good "preload" in the right direction, start heating the backing plate all the way around, maybe an inch out from the threads. This way, when (if) you reach the breaking point, you won't loose it (by the spindle warming) as you go for the turning weapons. You can easily loose the "window" in a fraction of a second. Another thing is the heat it's self. Propane torches are not "that" hot, and it takes a while to warm things up. You might do a lot better, with less heat applied, if you had access to a stronger heat source. Something that will heat it faster, but have you in and out in seconds instead of minutes. Another valid thing to if it's possible, which I suspect you can, is to stuff the spindle with wet rags. If there's room, and it may or may not be possible), an ice cube or two inside the wet rag. Just like there's an amazing amount of energy (heat) involved in making steam from the water (which is what you want, that energy (heat) comes right driectly out of the spindle...), there's also a similarly large energy amount involved in the transition from ice to water. All that amounts to more "differential heating", which is in the end, what separates stuck things.

The trouble with turning something like that off of there is, you take away the "handle" that you want to use to get the last bits out. Hoop stresses are a pretty amazing thing, but it leaves you with a small bit of the back plate in this case, still just as stuck as it ever was, and even if it relaxed "some", there's no way to hang on to it. So you're left turning right to exposed threads. Very, very possible to do, but every chance of it not going quite to plan.

If it does come to turning it off, it's just turning. You'll end up making a LOT of chips to get there, but the goal would be to turn it down until you just (and only just) cut into the root off the female thread, but no deeper than the gap between that and the crest of the male thread, so you'll be left with a giant heli-coil threaded onto the spindle. At that , when the heli-coil bit of metal is separated from the continuous metal, you'll have broken the "hoop" through which the pressure is applied, the fit will be relaxed, and the remaining bits will come right out.

I'd still go for the heat though, especially if there's any way you can come up with a higher and faster heat source, but cooling the spindle will greatly improve the results. And help with not burning the oil out of the front spindle bearing.
Good stuff...thanks. I think your assumption is correct...the lathe is really quite clean considering it's from the mid 1950s and I don't see any obvious rust, etc. I know it wasn't used much in the past 20 years or so as I bought it from the grandson of the previous owner, so that chuck has probably been on there a long, long time and who knows how many interrupted cuts it may have seen.

I was thinking about preloading it and then adding heat, while putting ice cubes in the spindle, so I'm glad you mentioned that. I have an oxy/acetylene torch just feet away, so it sound like that might be the next step. Preload, hotter flame and some internal ice.

I thought about the issue of turning it down part way and then being able to get a handle on it. I'm a pretty proficient TIG welder with a good track record of welding cast iron, so my thought was turn it down until it's something like 3/16" thick, then tack weld a lever arm on it and it would be easy to heat it at that point if necessary since there would be so little left. Still, I'd like to avoid the mess, time and waste of the back plate if necessary so I'm going to stick with heat for a while longer.

Maybe not a beauty queen, but not an old rust bucket either. This reminds me, I need to replace the Sheldon badge (it's in a drawer)!

IMG_2742.JPG
 
so here goes - just my 2 cents worth.

First I wouldn't use the spindle lock, as this can result in a broken pin or ruined gear tooth depending on you lathe.
I'm assuming you are at the 'desperate but don't want to ruin anything' stage...

Separate the back plate from the chuck. You want as little rotational mass as possible.

make a flat breaker bar to bolt to your face plate - something like 1/2" X 2" X 12" long (not too heavy or too long)
lock your spindle using your plug and fasten it like you are anchoring an ocean liner.

before I discuss the complicated bit - and just checking - (because I've made this mistake a long time ago)

make sure you are hitting in the 'twist off' direction, not the 'make this even harder' direction... Place the breaker bar in tension in the 'twist off' direction. I hang barbell weights on a wire until I have about 100-200 lbs off the end of the bolted breaker bar. It was a long time ago so I don't remember how much exactly.

You will need to evenly heat the back plate to about 300 degrees. use an infrared thermometer to ensure it is even. Don't go above 300F. Use dry ice to cool the centre of your spindle -and very quickly using a steel hammer whack the breaker bar in the twist off direction.

I had to do this for a SB9a once, and it wasn't pretty but it worked.
Thanks. It doesn't have a spindle lock and I'm not using back gear. I made a split collar for the end of the spindle and welded a breaker bar to that. The chuck is already off and I have a breaker bar attached to the face plate. I've tried heat, but haven't added the ice to the spindle, so that's up next.
 
This backing plate is very tight to the headstock and doesn't have much exposed to cut. The shoulder the chuck registers on doesn't stick out very far and I'd probably only be able to remove 3/8" of the threaded section from the spindle...if I could get at it. Honestly, it would be easier to run a parting tool in there and go partial depth, then switch to a chisel. I'm just not sure it would help...but it's got me thinking.

I mean split it thru the face side (you'll end up with two half moons). If you saw to almost the spindle, then try to spread the halves, it should come loose because a lot of the tension has been released. Once the CI is scored like this, it will split quite easily.
 
If you have the spindle secured via something other than back gear then get your breaker bar like object bolted to the back plate.

Get the heaviest helper that you can find to put all of their weight on it.

Next, get the biggest hammer that you can find and give a few solid taps at the Ed of the bar.

The impact combined with the constant force may work.

Next...

Get a brake drum or other big round thing that you can either grab with the chuck or bolt to the back plate.

Biggest thing that you can fit on the lathe.

Put a not so sharp but strong cutter upside down in the holder in a notso good angle, something that chatters.

Run in reverse and maybe it will break loose.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 
I recently bought one of these for my craftsman 12x36 on Ebay. Cost less that $10 including the shipping


It is made of plastic and fits very tight to the gear. You have to slip it in sideways. Maybe you could find something similar for your lathe. The Ebay seller could probably make one to fit your lathe if he doesn't already have one. This will lock the spindle in place.

Once the spindle is locked in place I would use the longest cheater bar you can attach to the backing plate. I am talking 8' or more. If that doesn't break it loose try hitting the backing plate with a couple of hard whacks.
 
Here's the method Grizzly recommends for their version of the Jet 1236 lathe, also with a screw-on chuck.

In addition to Grizzly instructions to engage the feed lever, I personally put mine in back-gear w/o disengaging the "pin" which effectively locks the spindle. This method has always worked for me.

Hope this helps.
 

Attachments

Another $.02 A "Takes patience" but reported as 100% reliable by Scott Logan is simple leverage.
  1. Lock the spindle using the method of choice.
  2. Put a bar as long as allowable clamped in the chuck jaws perpendicular to the ways. 1/2" pipe, 2x4, whatever.
  3. Put a "it don't matter" weight, plastic bucket of sand, on the end of the leaver.
  4. Wait it out.
Ron
 
I mean split it thru the face side (you'll end up with two half moons). If you saw to almost the spindle, then try to spread the halves, it should come loose because a lot of the tension has been released. Once the CI is scored like this, it will split quite easily.
Gotcha. I don't think that will work in my situation as the face plate has almost no clearance behind it. I can't imagine being able to cut without hitting the bearing housing behind it.

IMG_2832.PNG
 
I recently bought one of these for my craftsman 12x36 on Ebay. Cost less that $10 including the shipping


It is made of plastic and fits very tight to the gear. You have to slip it in sideways. Maybe you could find something similar for your lathe. The Ebay seller could probably make one to fit your lathe if he doesn't already have one. This will lock the spindle in place.

Once the spindle is locked in place I would use the longest cheater bar you can attach to the backing plate. I am talking 8' or more. If that doesn't break it loose try hitting the backing plate with a couple of hard whacks.
I've seen those in the past, and they offer one for my lathe, but they're a bit more expensive than yours...$26 with shipping. I decided to order one since I've spent a couple of days trying to get the spindle solidly locked and as soon as I start to lean on the cheater, the spindle moves just a touch...which isn't going to work in this case.
 
Back
Top