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Things that will not turn you into a machinist
- Thread starter OrangeAlpine
- Start date
I could trade golf clubs with Phil Mickelson or Tiger Woods, they play golf with mine and I play with theirs...
They have the finest, state of the art clubs that money can buy. Mine are second hand, maybe 20 even 30 or 40 years old or older, or second rate, certainly nothing to brag about.
These pro golfers would make me look pretty pathetic at my local country club on a course they have never played.
HOWEVER, they could have access to the finest machine shop, any tools in the world (money IS no object to those guys!); and put me in my shop with a part or project to complete; that's another story all together !!!
It ain't the clubs my friends, it's the clubber!
Lee Trevino made money betting golfers that he could beat them using a Dr Pepper bottle taped to a stick!
Attitude, Instruction, Experience, PRACTICE, Determination, and Perseverance: PRICELESS and UNBEATABLE!!
-Dave
They have the finest, state of the art clubs that money can buy. Mine are second hand, maybe 20 even 30 or 40 years old or older, or second rate, certainly nothing to brag about.
These pro golfers would make me look pretty pathetic at my local country club on a course they have never played.
HOWEVER, they could have access to the finest machine shop, any tools in the world (money IS no object to those guys!); and put me in my shop with a part or project to complete; that's another story all together !!!
It ain't the clubs my friends, it's the clubber!
Lee Trevino made money betting golfers that he could beat them using a Dr Pepper bottle taped to a stick!
Attitude, Instruction, Experience, PRACTICE, Determination, and Perseverance: PRICELESS and UNBEATABLE!!
-Dave
I am not a machinist but a hobbyist but what I was born was a troubleshooter. The most fun in any hobby I have ever been in a my former career was figuring out a way to solve a problem with what you have at hand. Just like machining a part. I don't have a lot of fancy stuff but I figure out ways to make things with what I have. As I said it is part of the fun. At work we use to call it MacGyver just like the old show.
Have fun and a great day!
Ed
Have fun and a great day!
Ed
My full time gig is teaching Paramedic Students. All the expensive monitoring equipment does no make for a good Paramedic. It's really about data analysis and critical decision making. Some of the best data is not with expensive monitors but rather with checking a patients pulse and using your stethoscope appropriately.
I'm a machinist noob.
I have also purchase many of the items on the "list".
Yes, I had somehow hoped that they might improve my machining accuracy. But, I understood that was a false hope.
The reality is that I like holding an old Lufkin mic and turning the barrel. Perhaps I should take up sitting on the couch and watching hockey.
If you sit watching hockey and twiddling your barrel, you'll go blind
I think what is missing is how this knowledge is gained. I can assure you there is nothing as gut wrenching as watching the tip of your freshly ground carbide lathe tool getting broken off because you didn't know what you were doing. I have done that (more than once
). I have a cupboard full of interesting measuring tools bought on Ebay 'because they will be really useful', they sit in their boxes mocking me.
Unfortunately, this knowledge can be hard won.
I'm convinced it wasn't for nothing that engineering apprentices used to spend the first few months using only a saw, a file and a square. Once they really knew what those tools did and didn't do, they could understand what machine tools could do for them
It's a craft, isn't it
Richard
I think what is missing is how this knowledge is gained. I can assure you there is nothing as gut wrenching as watching the tip of your freshly ground carbide lathe tool getting broken off because you didn't know what you were doing. I have done that (more than once
). I have a cupboard full of interesting measuring tools bought on Ebay 'because they will be really useful', they sit in their boxes mocking me. Unfortunately, this knowledge can be hard won.
I'm convinced it wasn't for nothing that engineering apprentices used to spend the first few months using only a saw, a file and a square. Once they really knew what those tools did and didn't do, they could understand what machine tools could do for them
It's a craft, isn't it
Richard
In 1969 I did what was called in the UK a 'Government Training Course', to be trained as a construction plant fitter, the course lasted six months.
The set first task was meant to weed out those with no aptitude. It involved marking out a 1 1/2" x 4" round bar, then using hand tools, making it into a square bar, starting with sharpening a cold chisel.
The finished piece was supposed to have one side neatly chiseled, one side sawn, one side draw filed and the other with a fine emery finish, all sides square and parallel.
Needless to say, this worked well, most showed great promise and did very well, a few took all week and ended up with a mushroom ended mangled lump of shrapnel, a coulpe gave up and went around moaning and annoying the ones diligently working.
However, the teachers, who where mostly ex military men, would not fail any student as it made their selection stats look bad, so all the duffers passed the test, the instructors spent the rest of the course covering for them, and they all passed out with certificates to show how proficient they where!
It was no surprise to me that all of these incompetents got jobs with local authorities, council maintenance depts, or on the railways, all of which used similar selection methods! All those departments have since been moved to the private sector as they where so inefficient!
Bernard
While not an absolute necessity,3 phase motors will make a lathe cut smoother by far than a 1 phase. Especially on the quality of surfaces seen in grinding.
While the QC tool post in itself(as a concept) is not an absolute need(and I used the old lantern style tool post for many years),a QC type tool post and holders will add a great deal of rigidity to a light lathe. Now that I have been using one for many years,I'd hate to have to go back. When I am trying to make decent money,dropping on the needed cutters instantly,instead of fiddling around with the lantern style tool post,greatly adds to your efficiency. Great time saver.
Carbide cutters: Ever try to face off a cast iron face plate with HSS cutters? You won't get all the way across a 12" face plate before the cutter poops out. Messes up your surface. The fact is,most modern lathes just run too fast to keep from dulling the cutting edges of carbon or HSS cutters when doing larger diameter work,especially on cast iron,welded areas,etc.. If you have a lathe that will do 5 RPM,you could get by,just like they did in the old days. But it will take all day to make a cut. In the old days,large facing lathes were sometimes driven by a big worm gear. They turned VERY slowly,as they had to in facing off large castings. Probably not even 1 rpm. They had to be that way to use carbon steel cutters. Carbon steel drills will drill anything HSS will drill IF you can run them slow enough. They used to drill armor plate with carbon steel drills,using soapy water as a cutting fluid.
I use HSS most of the time,and very often W1 cutters that I can file decorative shapes into,then harden. I made all of the drawing dies for the silver bracelets that Williamsburg sells,with carbon steel fly cutters I filed out. Also made the moldings for all the PGA trophies the same way. I have a box full old W1 or 01 cutters that I made for a single job. So,in my shop,they definitely have their uses. So do files. I treasure my files above most tools I have.
Lathes do not have to be "dead level",but,they do have to be aligned to themselves to do accurate work.
Most of my years,I never had any variable speed machinery,but my Hardinge HLVH has variable speed,and it,once again,saves a lot of time when I'm trying to make something I'm being paid to make.
The HLVH has a DRO,but I never use it due to the nature of my work. I'd see it as being most useful for getting lengthwise spacing on repeat parts I might make. I had a mill with 3 axis DRO at work. It was very useful for accurate spacing of holes (to me) Obviously a useful feature,but I'm not a commercial shop.
COLLETS: I love my collets in my HLVH lathe. They allow me to save a LOT when turning precious material like ivory,for example. I can grip an ivory pill box with 1/32" of grip,using custom shop made step collets that have a dovetail shaped,sharp edged grip. I can also save on expensive brass by using normal 5C collets. How much do you have to waste holding onto metal in a regular chuck? I also like the accuracy. I can remove and replace parts easily without losing noticeable concentricity. Once again,I've only on the past several years had the luxury of a collet equipped lathe,but I would hate to do without it now. Certified ivory is just out of sight these days. Brass is high. Silver is way too high (we have a jewelry making business.I help my wife making master models). My needs are special,obviously,but collets definitely help in material saving and time.
While the QC tool post in itself(as a concept) is not an absolute need(and I used the old lantern style tool post for many years),a QC type tool post and holders will add a great deal of rigidity to a light lathe. Now that I have been using one for many years,I'd hate to have to go back. When I am trying to make decent money,dropping on the needed cutters instantly,instead of fiddling around with the lantern style tool post,greatly adds to your efficiency. Great time saver.
Carbide cutters: Ever try to face off a cast iron face plate with HSS cutters? You won't get all the way across a 12" face plate before the cutter poops out. Messes up your surface. The fact is,most modern lathes just run too fast to keep from dulling the cutting edges of carbon or HSS cutters when doing larger diameter work,especially on cast iron,welded areas,etc.. If you have a lathe that will do 5 RPM,you could get by,just like they did in the old days. But it will take all day to make a cut. In the old days,large facing lathes were sometimes driven by a big worm gear. They turned VERY slowly,as they had to in facing off large castings. Probably not even 1 rpm. They had to be that way to use carbon steel cutters. Carbon steel drills will drill anything HSS will drill IF you can run them slow enough. They used to drill armor plate with carbon steel drills,using soapy water as a cutting fluid.
I use HSS most of the time,and very often W1 cutters that I can file decorative shapes into,then harden. I made all of the drawing dies for the silver bracelets that Williamsburg sells,with carbon steel fly cutters I filed out. Also made the moldings for all the PGA trophies the same way. I have a box full old W1 or 01 cutters that I made for a single job. So,in my shop,they definitely have their uses. So do files. I treasure my files above most tools I have.
Lathes do not have to be "dead level",but,they do have to be aligned to themselves to do accurate work.
Most of my years,I never had any variable speed machinery,but my Hardinge HLVH has variable speed,and it,once again,saves a lot of time when I'm trying to make something I'm being paid to make.
The HLVH has a DRO,but I never use it due to the nature of my work. I'd see it as being most useful for getting lengthwise spacing on repeat parts I might make. I had a mill with 3 axis DRO at work. It was very useful for accurate spacing of holes (to me) Obviously a useful feature,but I'm not a commercial shop.
COLLETS: I love my collets in my HLVH lathe. They allow me to save a LOT when turning precious material like ivory,for example. I can grip an ivory pill box with 1/32" of grip,using custom shop made step collets that have a dovetail shaped,sharp edged grip. I can also save on expensive brass by using normal 5C collets. How much do you have to waste holding onto metal in a regular chuck? I also like the accuracy. I can remove and replace parts easily without losing noticeable concentricity. Once again,I've only on the past several years had the luxury of a collet equipped lathe,but I would hate to do without it now. Certified ivory is just out of sight these days. Brass is high. Silver is way too high (we have a jewelry making business.I help my wife making master models). My needs are special,obviously,but collets definitely help in material saving and time.
Micrometers: Don't you measure your work? Most of the time I use dial calipers,but when measurements get critical,use a mike.
I agree with this statement I have checked a good many calipers against a micrometer and found them to be off 1 to 4 thousands. I have seen kids coming out of Machinist trade school that could read a digital caliper but not a micrometer. That is kind of like being able to read a digital clock but not an analog its the dumbing down of America.
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