Things that will not turn you into a machinist

A 0-1" mike is a good example. I have several micrometers, imperial and metric. I use the 0-1" all the time. I use the 1-2" occasionally. Once a year I miss not having a 2-3" mike and get by with a vernier caliper

If I didn't know any better, a boxed set of micrometers from 0-6" looks like an important purchase, in fact I lust after a nice set of Imperial micrometers in a wooden stand. In reality, I don't need them

That's what this kind of forum is good at, seeing what people can achieve with the same kit you already have, or learning what you are missing that you really need

Richard
 
Hi Fellas,
A quick comparison, I have neighbor who is a retired master toolmaker in his 80s who turns out some stunning work on an Indian made copy of a Myford lathe of minimal specification, to him it's about the journey not the destination. I have a 12 x 36 with variable speed DC drive, QCTP, DRO and collets. I can work to the same level of accuracy and finish in a quarter of the time. I wish I had his patience, but unfortunately I don't. As an analogy I could drive a car without Auto Trans, Air Con, Cruise Control etc. but I prefer not to.
Regards,
Martin
 
DMS said:
My mill is down while I make some modifcations to the head, including making some new drive pulleys. I needed to cut keyways on these pulleys, and needed some cutters to do so. Would have normally turned to the mill, but instead, I used a file. Results were great. I seem to remember a lot of early machine tools were designed to replace hand filing.

I also agree with the OPs premise. A lot of people getting started (me included) think that you need a lot of things on that list, some of which are pretty expensive, when the reality is that none of the things on that list are required to do good work (well, I would argue with the micrometer, the ability to measure IS required). Too often this serves as a barrier to action, as we tell ourselves "we can't do this without X".

I recall a reprint of an old engineering magazine (Popular Mechanics maybe?) that had an article on building a jig for cutting gears using hand files. So in some sense, I would agree that yes, all you need is a file, though you could probably get by with a chisel and hammer, though I think that your statement was somewhat in jest :tiphat:
Click to expand...

Was it this article?

http://books.google.com/books?id=VS...cQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=gear cutting jig&f=false

It is for making wooden gears but the concept should be the same.
 
I once heard about a Mercedes/BMW mechanic in town railing about using vise-grips. It went something to the tune of "Grip what you are attempting to fix with one, then round off the corners, and then destroy it so that when I get it to fix, it'll take me twice the time and effort!" Consider that he truly was old school, and in the school that he learned his trade they made their own hand tools (starting with a file), and only after two years of fabricating and metal tempering on this level did they let them anywhere close to a lathe or mill. I guess from his perspective he had a valid point. I personally like to buy my hand tools. That's not to say that I would absolutely love to possess the expertise and appreciation of the craft that comes with that type of experience. I just doubt that they teach that way anymore, or that I would have the patience to learn the craft that way. All of this is given as an example that in the not too distant past, machinists didn't have all of the "stuff" that we have and if they did they made it themselves. Ohh how times change.
 
Don't need carbide? Please tell me how do you cut/drill hard metarials, such as welds, case hardened and AR?

I can see how you can get away with a good caliper, but I prefer a mic for a 'good' reading.
 
I understand for the most part, where you are coming from. It was a good thought provoking post.
Hey guys ,don’t shoot the messenger, he has raised some good points

I don’t regard myself as a machinist, rather as a person who enjoys general metal work, lathe work and using a mill when I can get the access to one. I strongly believe that there are some basic foundation skills that people such as myself, should aspire to.

These are the skills I am thinking of:
  • Marking out accurately
  • Using a hacksaw accurately
  • Reading a mike
  • Reading analogue vernier calipers
  • Hand grinding your own twist drill bits- not ones to be used in the lathe for precision work
  • Hand grinding your own HSS steel lathe bits.

Along with that comes the skills in thinking out a job, taking accurate measurements, making a sketch, making a materials cut list and lastly planning what tools to use.

Sadly too many have not been trained in these basics .

I have been a trade college teacher and high school shop teacher, or manual arts teacher (for Poms and Aussies) and have found that students were far better grounded when taught those basics. Those kids understood that the operator makes the machine accurate, not the other way around.

I should also add, I own a micrometer (given to me on my 21st birthday, a QCTP and a dozen tool holders, four vernier calipers 1 imperial analogue,1 imperial dial vernier,2 analogue metric and 1metric dial caliper. I could be viewed as having a foot in the dark side, I suppose.

Thanks for the post.

Oz
 
I get it... it's true to a degree... I'm a newbie and I've spent last fall in the quest for tooling. A lot of this stuff is out of my budget at the moment. There are tools I want to build which would also lead me to learn. Part of my interest in the tools is for sake of learning. When you've never heard of sine bar you read about it and think... hmm maybe I need this to do things right on the machine. Does it stop me from working, no, you figure out other ways or guestimate angles... sometimes it doesn't matter that much... other times it's absolutely vital. How do you learn when you're new with no background in machining.

If not having some "non-vital" tool is keeping you from working and learning than that's a shame. But if you can get some of these things for cheap and it's not stopping you (whether or not you them) then why not? If you can machine a better nut and make your machine backlash less than .020" with little or no cost... why not do it. You learn from the process.


Carbide tooling - I've been using cheap carbide lathe tools from HF... they're pretty good and way easier that sharpening HSS... I don't have a tool grinding set up yet. I've aquired a whole wide drawer full of carbide tooling from my retired buddy.
Quick change tool holders - Don't have one yet but I can see how it would make life easier... don't need it and it's pricey.
Super precise machines & tooling - Would be nice... but I agree
Less than .020" backlash - Would be nice but you can work around it.
Coolant systems - don't need it, don't want it - messy and not needed... just brush on if you really need it.
Surface plates - don't need yet - but might get a thick piece of granite from a home RE shop - don't want to lose work space.
CNC machines - would be cool but I like to make things manualy.
DRO's - this would be really handy - you can do it cheap by bolting up verniers from HF.
Three phase motors - don't need it at home
Variable speed drives - is this electronic or mechanical?
Dead level lathe - who cares as long as it turns straight.
Collets - Why not, i got a 7pc R8 collet set for $26 - works great.
Micrometers - I have a nice Starrett and couple chinese - don't touch them.. the Vernier works great

Tools on my list:
Rotary table - would like to build one
Indexing equipment
Carbide Tool grinder - why did HF stop selling this?!?
A good vise or two
A better mill
clamping tools
ER-40 collet set
quick change tool post
a good flycutter
boring bar

Just my 2 cents.
 
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