Things that will not turn you into a machinist

[97r82]

As a career machinist, we've got a saying: Anybody could make good parts on a brand new machine, it takes skill to get good products from this junk! :lmao:

Truthfully, I'm amazed at some fellows' ingenuity at getting things done, with less. I agree, throwing money at a problem doesn't always solve it. However... the more tools that I build for my hobby shop ( quick- change TP), and the better quality tools ( B&S test indicator ), greatly increase my enjoyment, and success.

In short, tools are just that, tools. The most important tool is your brain.

Ed Hoc

I think we worked for the same guy. I can't believe we accomplished what we did at some of the job shops I have worked in. It was nice to get to run the best machine in the shop whatever that might be. That is how you knew you were moving up in the company. Don't miss the good old days. We have pretty good equipment where I work now but rarely use it. More mechanic work than anything now. Every once in a while I make a prototype part or repair. I guess I missed it though. I now have a Southbend and a camelback drill press. Some guys never learn. Machinists are a special breed.

 

[refinery Mike]

Where i work i find it amazing how few workers have any idea how to use a file. Or a chisel, let alone a cape chisel or a diamond point chisel. It is painful to watch them trying to file something. fancy tools are nice but sometimes you just have to do things the old fashioned way.

 

[chipmaker51]

My time is in very short supply. If I can buy something that will save me time in the short or medium term, I will be smashing the piggy bank. I want to be machining, not grinding HSS.

People assume that this equipment is expensive, but I would argue if you are patient, you can get good deals. I bought alot of the equipment mentioned used, or it came with my used machines. I bought my machines cheap since they needed repairs or a lot of servicing. This meant I had a little extra left over. Does this gear make me a better machinist? Probably not even a little. It does make the work more enjoyable and also helps me get through it faster. If every project turned into a marathon... I would quit machining and take up marathons instead.

This purist thinking causes division more than it brings people together. The goal is machining. How it gets done or what gear gets used is a talking point, not the focus and rarely the goal.

Paul.

I find that after I do work on the machines that I buy that need some "TLC", I learn a lot about the machine that I didn't know before, and would not have known without the experience. While the machine itself may not make me a better machinist, the experience of servicing/ repairing/ adapting the machine to do usable work very definitely makes me a better machinist IMHO.

 

[OrangeAlpine]

My time is in very short supply. If I can buy something that will save me time in the short or medium term, I will be smashing the piggy bank. I want to be machining, not grinding HSS.

People assume that this equipment is expensive, but I would argue if you are patient, you can get good deals. I bought alot of the equipment mentioned used, or it came with my used machines. I bought my machines cheap since they needed repairs or a lot of servicing. This meant I had a little extra left over. Does this gear make me a better machinist? Probably not even a little. It does make the work more enjoyable and also helps me get through it faster. If every project turned into a marathon... I would quit machining and take up marathons instead.

This purist thinking causes division more than it brings people together. The goal is machining. How it gets done or what gear gets used is a talking point, not the focus and rarely the goal.

Paul.

Paul, this is not about purist thinking. It is trying to tell the newby that he does not need all that stuff in order to become a good machinist. Quicker, more proficient, able to tackle a wider range of materials - Yes. But they do little nothing to promote education process.

Years ago, it was a common lament among shutterbugs that they needed a better camera. Little did they realize that Ansel Adams could take a better photo using a pinhole camera than they could with $2000 Nikon. As others have noted, THAT is what this is about.

Bill

 

[wolframore]

This is a good topic as it's causing a lot of conversation. From a newbie point of view:

This is really cool, I get a machine, a lathe and mill and now what? I get metal. Having fun turning things and making cool shapes... even make some useful pieces to fix: my snow blower needs a new pin for the clutch engagement... nice, needs a new brass ferrule nice, mail box needs new pivot pins... fixed... I built a Harold Hall height gauge. Mostly what i need are cutters and a cheap HF digital caliper.

I read forums and get some old Henry Ford Machining books from a friend... hmm... wow you can make gears, that would be useful... oopps need to figure out indexing and dividing... maybe a rotary table or collet divider?!?

Snapped a bunch of HHS cutters - jeeze I need a tool grinder... frack it get some carbide bits from HF... works good after going through a box to figure out the right feed...

What a pain in the a#@ to change tools on the 4 post. Keep having to tighten - untighten - hmm a quick change sounds cool.

Need to hold down things better - hmm so many types of hold downs...

would be really cool to have indexable insert cutters for the lathe. I picked up a bunch of them from a guy for nothing.

Wow would be cool to be able to knurl for my tool height gauge... - hmm what do i need and how do i do it


I really appreciate the idea that you can do most things without obsessing about tools. But as a newbie and as a guy who has limited time in the garage, and as a tool monger/addict. I love tools that save time and do things better.

I read Chuck Fellow's post about automatic indexer build with adurino and stepper motor. There are some issues with what divisions you can index given the motor ratio and gear ratio... (Chuck if you figured out how to overcome this let me know!) Do you need it? Naaaah... but I want to build one now. automatic indexing to mill gears - take the tedium and mistakes out of using a RT with dividing plates (which I don't even have).


I really appreciate all the experienced guys here sharing your info. What a cool hobby with cool toys... sorry I love toys and will lust after them... Hi my name is charlie and I'm a tool addict. Ask my wife.

 

[DJ Bill]

Interesting conversation for sure. As a newbie starting out again after a decade away from my lathe, opening up a catalog or website for tooling is mind boggling. I have no clue what i am looking at or need, just that what I have isn't going to do it for me. It reminds me of looking at my Calculus textbook the first day of class. :thinking:

For example, this morning I was looking at tools for cheap trying to figure out just what toolpost and inserts I needed to replace my lantern tool post on my Atlas 10F. After about ten minutes I found an Aloris copy package deal that looked good, but no cutters, only a few holders and the tool post. Started to try and find the cutters for it and got frustrated. I'll try again later.


Now if they had a package deal of starter tooling for an Atlas 10F, I'd be on it in a second. Would I need it all, I have NO IDEA.


The one thing keeping me from being one of those newbies buying out the store is a severe lack of $$$.

 

[jeffm]

Indeed. Remember, an engineer is a man who can saw with a file and file with a saw

Richard

Here I always thought an engineer was a mechanic with no thumbs.

Jeff
Vietnam vet - Patriot Guard rider
sent from my Android phone

 

[nightowl499]

just some thoughts of mine on this , In general i would rather have lots of tools i don't need
than to not have the one i do need. I believe tools are what makes the world work. I have found that
usually the first time i reach for a new tool it pays for its self first time. Have a small motorcycle shop
and my rule with my partner on buying things is that if what you want sounds or looks like a tool
don't ask me just buy it. If you think you need it you most likely do.

 

[samthedog]

Paul, this is not about purist thinking. It is trying to tell the newby that he does not need all that stuff in order to become a good machinist. Quicker, more proficient, able to tackle a wider range of materials - Yes. But they do little nothing to promote education process.

Years ago, it was a common lament among shutterbugs that they needed a better camera. Little did they realize that Ansel Adams could take a better photo using a pinhole camera than they could with $2000 Nikon. As others have noted, THAT is what this is about.

Bill

I get your point. That is what it is about for you. Maybe that's not what it is about for others.

You don't need a lot of stuff to be a good machinist, you need education. I would argue that education plus the right tools for the job makes a more effective and efficient machinist than a good education with the wrong tools.

I worked as a capenter in my past employment and people would laugh at the different tools I had. I had a Fein Multimaster for undercutting door plates for installing floating floors. People laughed at how much I paid for it and often made the same comments that I didn't need it and that somehow I was cheapening the trade image by using it. I didn't care because while they were still sweating, cursing and chiselling out their floor plates, I had already finished all my installs and was packing up to go home. I enjoyed that crummy part of the job because the tool did the work for me, and not me doing all the work for the lack of having the correct tool. I could have done the same job with inferior tools and would have still gotten a good result. It just would have taken me a great deal longer with a lot more frustration.

Being a good machinist and having the right tools are not mutually exclusive. I would argue that given the chance, people should choose to learn machining with the right tools from the get-go if it is within their means. This isn't to say you should hold off starting machining because you can't afford the toys, but rather identify which toys would make your life easier and be used in the majority of your projects. For example, if you will do multiple tool changes on a regular basis, buying a QCTP is not cheating or cheapening the experience. It is smart... plain and simple.

Paul.

 

[7HC]

Deleted by 7HC .................................


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